Not a Self-build, but a Tweaker
- Thread starter wildebus
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wildebus
Forum Member
xsilvergs
Forum Member
@wildebus
Having little to do today I thought I'd read this thread again and read up on lead carbon batteries. When it comes to charging lead carbon the float voltage is given but there seems little info on Bulk charge voltage, although I don't think I've seen the term Bulk mentioned.
David, what voltages will you be setting your B2B to?
Having little to do today I thought I'd read this thread again and read up on lead carbon batteries. When it comes to charging lead carbon the float voltage is given but there seems little info on Bulk charge voltage, although I don't think I've seen the term Bulk mentioned.
David, what voltages will you be setting your B2B to?
wildebus
Forum Member
The Ritar Batteries I have have an Absorption voltage of 14.2 - 14.4V (it is referred to as Constant Voltage Charge on the battery info on the side of the unit). The typical Lead Carbon battery seem to prefer a lower voltage than the typical AGM Lead Acid Battery I have noticed. The Northstar Lead Acid has a similar recommended range.
You won't see a Voltage quoted for Bulk Charging, as that voltage is variable and is the stage where you will more likely see a recommended Current (as Bulk is more correctly referred to as Constant Current).
Once I have solar installed, I will be setting the B2B Voltage to be slightly higher than the Multiplus Voltage so when parked and with EHU, the PV will take care of any residual current needs, so maybe 14.3V if the Multiplus is 14.2V.
wildebus
Forum Member
This is the charge cycle from charge on to float from my Easyplus (bear in mind voltage output will be higher than set due to temp compensation for cold battery)
Added the state of the Easyplus to show what it was doing during the voltage and current times. Also, you might notice the voltage dropped down before the current dropped to a very low level and the batteries were fully charged? This is because these batteries have a recommended maximum absorption charge time of 5 hours, so as soon as the Easyplus clocked up 5 hours of absorption time, it switched to Float.
Most chargers don't allow you to take account of this type of recommendation but is quite important. A feature of Lead Carbon batteries is that they don't mind being left at a PSOC (Partial State of Charge) so not getting to 100% charge due to a timeout like that won't hurt the batteries life in the same way that it might with standard Lead Acid.
As an aside, added the Battery Temp info below for the same timeline. I find it quite interesting how quickly the batteries warm up. I think this is important to note if using a charger like the Victron MPPT which by default records the temperature at the start of the day and used that temp to set the voltage compensation throughout the day - so essentially over-compensating as the battery warms due to the effect of charging. Fitting the Victron Smart Battery Sense (SBS) or sharing a different Temp Sensor via the Venus OS system is definately a good idea.
Added the state of the Easyplus to show what it was doing during the voltage and current times. Also, you might notice the voltage dropped down before the current dropped to a very low level and the batteries were fully charged? This is because these batteries have a recommended maximum absorption charge time of 5 hours, so as soon as the Easyplus clocked up 5 hours of absorption time, it switched to Float.
Most chargers don't allow you to take account of this type of recommendation but is quite important. A feature of Lead Carbon batteries is that they don't mind being left at a PSOC (Partial State of Charge) so not getting to 100% charge due to a timeout like that won't hurt the batteries life in the same way that it might with standard Lead Acid.
As an aside, added the Battery Temp info below for the same timeline. I find it quite interesting how quickly the batteries warm up. I think this is important to note if using a charger like the Victron MPPT which by default records the temperature at the start of the day and used that temp to set the voltage compensation throughout the day - so essentially over-compensating as the battery warms due to the effect of charging. Fitting the Victron Smart Battery Sense (SBS) or sharing a different Temp Sensor via the Venus OS system is definately a good idea.
wildebus
Forum Member
Some little updates to the Motorhome ....
Tyre Pressure Monitoring System
I am a big fan of TPMS systems and have used them for over 15 years - both aftermarket add-ons and later on Factory Fitted systems.
The aftermarket ones tend to be better in fact as they typically provide monitoring for both Tyre Pressure and Temperature and for that reason can provide faster indications of dragging brakes then just uneven pressure increases.
On the Autotrail I have the Reimo cab blinds fitted and a screen-mounted TPMS display would get in the way as well as adding extra clutter, so I decided to go for a system that integrated with the In-Dash 'infotainment' system I installed after getting the van ....
So this is the kit (you don't get the middle display bit though! THAT is the radio in your van
)
There are a few kits like this - I chose the "Jansite" badged unit available from Amazon here - https://amzn.to/3u1wagQ
You get the 4 sensors which fit on in place of the dustcaps. These are marked up for each wheel and pre-paired to the receiver so no setup is needed in that repect.
You install an App on the head unit. There is one on the USB key, but that key wasn't recognised by the head unit so I downloaded from the Google Play Store instead.
Following are a bunch of App screenshots from the Amazon listing
The app seems pretty good. You setup your parameters for high and low pressure and high temp and then if the thresholds are exceeded an alarm (visual and audible) comes up.
I still think in PSI so changed the units from BAR to PSI, and setup the pressures to suit the motorhome. I run at 65PSI all round and I made sure the TPMS system could cope with the higher pressures found in commercials (the kit works upto 8 BAR, which is well over 100PSI, so more than enough. Many kits are car only and have a 4 BAR cutoff)
Took some (terrible) photos of my setup ...
BTW. The display below is slightly different as the App you download is different to the one they supply on the key and show in the example, but everything workds in the same way.
This shows each tyre (and this is telling me I need to pump them up!). I set the High Pressure value to 65PSI to check how the alarm would look.
And when the dash unit is in normal use, say listening to the radio, and an alarm occurs, you get this kind of display...
Set the thresholds correctly after that (went for 71PSI upper, 55PSI lower at the moment).
I've found tyre pressures tend to stablise at the "running pressure" after around 20 minutes of cruising and don't really go higher unless you are taking corners like a madman, so after a little drive out I'll get an idea what to set the numbers to.
Tyre Pressure Monitoring System
I am a big fan of TPMS systems and have used them for over 15 years - both aftermarket add-ons and later on Factory Fitted systems.
The aftermarket ones tend to be better in fact as they typically provide monitoring for both Tyre Pressure and Temperature and for that reason can provide faster indications of dragging brakes then just uneven pressure increases.
On the Autotrail I have the Reimo cab blinds fitted and a screen-mounted TPMS display would get in the way as well as adding extra clutter, so I decided to go for a system that integrated with the In-Dash 'infotainment' system I installed after getting the van ....
So this is the kit (you don't get the middle display bit though! THAT is the radio in your van
)There are a few kits like this - I chose the "Jansite" badged unit available from Amazon here - https://amzn.to/3u1wagQ
You get the 4 sensors which fit on in place of the dustcaps. These are marked up for each wheel and pre-paired to the receiver so no setup is needed in that repect.
You install an App on the head unit. There is one on the USB key, but that key wasn't recognised by the head unit so I downloaded from the Google Play Store instead.
Following are a bunch of App screenshots from the Amazon listing
The app seems pretty good. You setup your parameters for high and low pressure and high temp and then if the thresholds are exceeded an alarm (visual and audible) comes up.
I still think in PSI so changed the units from BAR to PSI, and setup the pressures to suit the motorhome. I run at 65PSI all round and I made sure the TPMS system could cope with the higher pressures found in commercials (the kit works upto 8 BAR, which is well over 100PSI, so more than enough. Many kits are car only and have a 4 BAR cutoff)
Took some (terrible) photos of my setup ...
BTW. The display below is slightly different as the App you download is different to the one they supply on the key and show in the example, but everything workds in the same way.
This shows each tyre (and this is telling me I need to pump them up!). I set the High Pressure value to 65PSI to check how the alarm would look.
And when the dash unit is in normal use, say listening to the radio, and an alarm occurs, you get this kind of display...
Set the thresholds correctly after that (went for 71PSI upper, 55PSI lower at the moment).
I've found tyre pressures tend to stablise at the "running pressure" after around 20 minutes of cruising and don't really go higher unless you are taking corners like a madman, so after a little drive out I'll get an idea what to set the numbers to.
Last edited:
xsilvergs
Forum Member
Some little updates to the Motorhome ....
Tyre Pressure Monitoring System
I am a big fan of TPMS systems and have used them for over 15 years - both aftermarket add-ons and later on Factory Fitted systems.
The aftermarket ones tend to be better in fact as they typically provide monitoring for both Tyre Pressure and Temperature and for that reason can provide faster indications of dragging brakes then just uneven pressure increases.
On the Autotrail I have the Reimo cab blinds fitted and a screen-mounted TPMS display would get in the way as well as adding extra clutter, so I decided to go for a system that integrated with the In-Dash 'infotainment' system I installed after getting the van ....
So this is the kit (you don't get the middle display bit though! THAT is the radio in your van
View attachment 3610
There are a few kits like this - I chose the "Jansite" badged unit available from Amazon here - https://amzn.to/3u1wagQ
You get the 4 sensors which fit on in place of the dustcaps. These are marked up for each wheel and pre-paired to the receiver so no setup is needed in that repect.
You install an App on the head unit. There is one on the USB key, but that key wasn't recognised by the head unit so I downloaded from the Google Play Store instead.
Following are a bunch of App screenshots from the Amazon listing
View attachment 3611
The app seems pretty good. You setup your parameters for high and low pressure and high temp and then if the thresholds are exceeded an alarm (visual and audible) comes up.
I still think in PSI so changed the units from BAR to PSI, and setup the pressures to suit the motorhome. I run at 65PSI all round and I made sure the TPMS system could cope with the higher pressures found in commercials (the kit works upto 8 BAR, which is well over 100PSI, so more than enough. Many kits are car only and have a 4 BAR cutoff)
Took some (terrible) photos of my setup ...
BTW. The display below is slightly different as the App you download is different to the one they supply on the key and show in the example, but everything workds in the same way.
This shows each tyre (and this is telling me I need to pump them up!). I set the High Pressure value to 65PSI to check how the alarm would look.
View attachment 3612
And when the dash unit is in normal use, say listening to the radio, and an alarm occurs, you get this kind of display...
View attachment 3613
Set the thresholds correctly after that (went for 71PSI upper, 55PSI lower at the moment).
I've found tyre pressures tend to stablise at the "running pressure" after around 20 minutes of cruising and don't really go higher unless you are taking corners like a madman, so after a little drive out I'll get an idea what to set the numbers to.
Do you have a link to the In-Dash 'infotainment' system you fitted and how would you rate it?
wildebus
Forum Member
Hi. It is this specific unit - https://amzn.to/2QW4wnz - but it is showing as 'not currently available' (quite common for these type of units as they get superceded so frequently).
It is a Pumpkin branded unit. Pumpkin specialise in these kind of units - I bought a Pumpkin branded Windows CE unit years ago that was designed to fit specifically in Toyotas circa 2005, so they have been around a fair time.
Cost £250 which is pretty typical and I am pretty pleased with it and would buy again. Good power output, able to install standard apps so have Audible tolisten to books, Amazon music and google music as well as built in Sat-Nav which is actually very good (I am tempted to sell my Garmin Camper 660 and just use this).
On my van (the pre facelift X250 Ducato) I had to get to work with the dremel to convert the radio mount into a 2-DIN size internally (various mounts sticking out for the coin/trinket tray above the radio) and it does stick out slightly (this is typical with this style of dash - I get the same with the VW Transporter T5s) so could look a little nicer. I still need to adapt the outer trim piece to finish the job off and loose the "sunken" look.
The later Ducatos (X290?) I think have a different radio mount and it is easier to just drop a 2-DIN unit in place I believe?
Oh, and I can also run VRM on a browser from the screen or look at the Remote Console on the Cerbo.
SquirrellCook
Forum Member
How do you overcome "legally" stopping the sweet children stealing your dustcaps? I had thought they could be inside the wheels, but P/P=0
wildebus
Forum Member
This is always a bit of a worry.How do you overcome "legally" stopping the sweet children stealing your dustcaps? I had thought they could be inside the wheels, but P/P=0
You can get internal sensors but that involves tyre dealer work. last time I had that done, only got charged £10 for the 4 as "mates rates" as I used to do some wheel refurbs for them. Also a pain when battery needs replacing.
This would be the Internal option - https://amzn.to/3wcSiXC - but they tend to be for cars and not heavier vehicles. That one in the link would not go high enough. I fitted an "ORANGE TPMS" system with internal sensors in my Master and it was no good as couldn't go above 60PSI (used them on cars and they were great).
I have actually never had the external sensors nicked and used external kits for many years now - but then never been to Essex for years either
You do get a little nut and spanner ... see this pic - https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/61lW8vcvuzL._AC_SL1000_.jpg
You put the nut on, then screw the sensor on tight, then tighten the nut to the sensor and it is pretty well locked into place and cannot be removed without the spanner (I don't tend to use them though as a pain to remove - which is the intention I guess
)Last time had any wee nippers to this was in North London and ... would you believe it .... on a Sunday Morning when the car was parked outside the Church! Coming out and saw them kneeling down at the wheels (and they weren't praying).
SquirrellCook
Forum Member
I'd tried reporting this sort of thing to the police and was laughed at! Even future serious criminals need training, it starts early with dust caps.
Reminds me of a story. My eldest sister by 20 years younger, came home with some apples as a small child. Obviously stolen. After interrogation the source of the stolen apples was found. My mother marched my sister to the house with said apples and got my sister to knock on the door. A woman answered and my sister apologised for stealing the apples. "That's ok my love" says the woman "you keep them" My mother was very miffed that my sister never got a second telling off!
Life was tough as a child, I was deprived of the misbehaviour most children had daily.
Silver sprinter
Forum Member
SquirrellCook
Forum Member
Before I was born.Dave did you get one of your sisters Apple's
wildebus
Forum Member
Now the weather is improved, been working on the solar setup for the motorhome.
Bought the panels ages ago, carefully selected to maximize the use of the space across the roof and between two vents.
The panels are 90W Mono ones from Victron, as mentioned chosen due to their dimensions. Got a total of 3 panels which nicely cover the space. These will be fitted to the roof rack - using mechanical fittings as I am more more comfortable with a physical mounting than adhesive and as the rack is there may as well make use of it
I was originally intending to make the array tiltable but when I started building the frame I though long and hard on this matter and decided that in reality I really would be unlikely to get up on the roof to do the tilting, plus the way I would have set up the tilt direction in order to have access to do it would not suit how I would want to position the van anyway. So tilting is out
Cut two strips of angle to the length of the three panels and mounted the panels front and rear to them
Used industrial style self-tappers to secure the panel to the angle section.
The underneath....
To secure the angle to the rack, I used 38mm (1.5") exhaust-type clamps. This is the frame secured (there are two connecting sections to help with the positioning)
And the panels secured
Also drilled the roof to get the cables outside and routed to the array.
Slightly annoyingly, the cables were around 2" shorter than I would have liked for the neatest job, so that will be dealt with on Tues or Weds when a new combiner kit arrives which will effectively lengthten the cables by around 3". Once that is done, I will put the black solar cables in a length of conduit against the side.
I am having the 3 panels connected in Parallel as a precaution against shading as there is an opening roof vent directly in front of AND behind the middle panel and so it is possible I could be shading that panel.
Just did a quick look at what the array is doing ....
For the time of day and I also have a large pine that blocks "prime time" harvesting as well as other parts of the day, 53W is looking quite nice. be interesting to see tomorrow when the panels are connected throughout the day.
Bought the panels ages ago, carefully selected to maximize the use of the space across the roof and between two vents.
The panels are 90W Mono ones from Victron, as mentioned chosen due to their dimensions. Got a total of 3 panels which nicely cover the space. These will be fitted to the roof rack - using mechanical fittings as I am more more comfortable with a physical mounting than adhesive and as the rack is there may as well make use of it
I was originally intending to make the array tiltable but when I started building the frame I though long and hard on this matter and decided that in reality I really would be unlikely to get up on the roof to do the tilting, plus the way I would have set up the tilt direction in order to have access to do it would not suit how I would want to position the van anyway. So tilting is out
Cut two strips of angle to the length of the three panels and mounted the panels front and rear to them
Used industrial style self-tappers to secure the panel to the angle section.
The underneath....
To secure the angle to the rack, I used 38mm (1.5") exhaust-type clamps. This is the frame secured (there are two connecting sections to help with the positioning)
And the panels secured
Also drilled the roof to get the cables outside and routed to the array.
Slightly annoyingly, the cables were around 2" shorter than I would have liked for the neatest job, so that will be dealt with on Tues or Weds when a new combiner kit arrives which will effectively lengthten the cables by around 3". Once that is done, I will put the black solar cables in a length of conduit against the side.
I am having the 3 panels connected in Parallel as a precaution against shading as there is an opening roof vent directly in front of AND behind the middle panel and so it is possible I could be shading that panel.
Just did a quick look at what the array is doing ....
For the time of day and I also have a large pine that blocks "prime time" harvesting as well as other parts of the day, 53W is looking quite nice. be interesting to see tomorrow when the panels are connected throughout the day.
wildebus
Forum Member
Hi Pete,
I have a Victron Cerbo GX in my setup - and that has 4 inputs for temp sensors.
Temp #27 is a probe bolted to the battery
Temp #26 is a probe that just lives behind the sofa back cushion in free air, so is essentially a room temp indicaton
Temp #24 is a probe I plan to eventually route to inside the fridge but currently is pressed against the side of the EasyPlus (which is why it is quite high as the EP had been working fairly hard putting out 60+ Amps for around an hour earlier)
(I don't use the regular Battery Temp Input on the EasyPlus for the Battery Temp - I use that connection for another purpose, but you can simply tell the Cerbo which sensor input to allocate as the designated Battery Temp that is distributed round the system).
One of the options in the Victron GX setup is to allow you to send both Battery Voltage (from the BMV in my case) and Battery Temp (from Sensor #27 in my case) around the system - so the MPPT will actually be using the actual Battery Temp in a similar way as if you had the Bluetooth Victron SBS and VE.Smart Networking running
You are correct that the VRM system doesn't give the info for the Battery Temp in the MPPT, but to confirm the controller is picking it up correctly, you can use VE.Connect to double-check. This is the VE.Connect Screen for the MPPT captured at the same time the VRM just refreshed
The numbers for Solar Watts, Solar V&C and Battery V&C may often not match precisely as VE.Connect is real-time and the detailed VRM info is sampled data once a minute at the very fastest. Battery Temp usually moves a lot slower so likely would always be a match
wildebus
Forum Member
Thanks
Not had a real chance to go out in her since buying but we love the style of it and the end bathroom really is just fantastic indeed
Lots of trips out planned as soon as the situation permits
. We've been let out in Wales so we are taking full advantage of it 
Phil