Millie Master
Forum Member
I don't think she could have read the question!!
I don't think she could have read the question!!
Greggbear67
Forum Member
All very misleading, you are required by law to get the logbook changed but if they won't change it you can still use your vehicle as a motor caravan. Sounds like a complete mess to me...
Millie Master
Forum Member
That is exactly what I did yesterday Phil.............. She reads like she is an absolute jobsworth!!
I will put up a reply as and when I receive one.
Phil
NickB
WELL HERE IT IS...
Dear Mr Bxxxx
Speed limit enquiries are usually dealt with by DfT however, because of some confusion over the speed limits for motor caravans, the DVLA have been working with the DfT to provide the information for customers.
As explained previously, the ‘body type’ information held on the DVLA record is primarily used to describe what a vehicle looks like externally in traffic and does not necessarily represent the vehicle’s function or use. If a converted van meets the definition of a motor caravan and does not exceed 3.05 tonnes unladen weight, then it is not restricted to lower speeds than the national limits and can travel at the same speed limits as a car. If a keeper is satisfied that the vehicle meets the definition of a motor caravan then it can be operated it as such regardless whether or not the DVLA have registered it as such in the ‘body type’ field.
We emphasise to vehicle keepers that even if DVLA are unable to change the body type, they are still able to use the vehicle as a motor caravan provided any alterations made do not compromise the vehicle’s safety.
Kind regards
Johnson Yuen
Vehicles Policy (Post Registration)
Strategy, Policy and Communications Directorate | C2 East | DVLA | Swansea | SA6 7JL
Dear Mr Bxxxx
Speed limit enquiries are usually dealt with by DfT however, because of some confusion over the speed limits for motor caravans, the DVLA have been working with the DfT to provide the information for customers.
As explained previously, the ‘body type’ information held on the DVLA record is primarily used to describe what a vehicle looks like externally in traffic and does not necessarily represent the vehicle’s function or use. If a converted van meets the definition of a motor caravan and does not exceed 3.05 tonnes unladen weight, then it is not restricted to lower speeds than the national limits and can travel at the same speed limits as a car. If a keeper is satisfied that the vehicle meets the definition of a motor caravan then it can be operated it as such regardless whether or not the DVLA have registered it as such in the ‘body type’ field.
We emphasise to vehicle keepers that even if DVLA are unable to change the body type, they are still able to use the vehicle as a motor caravan provided any alterations made do not compromise the vehicle’s safety.
Kind regards
Johnson Yuen
Vehicles Policy (Post Registration)
Strategy, Policy and Communications Directorate | C2 East | DVLA | Swansea | SA6 7JL
Millie Master
Forum Member
And here is the reply I have just received to my question that she hadn't answered in her first email to me: -
Dear Mr. McDonald;
Thank you for your further email.
I am sorry my previous reply did not answer your enquiry.
It may help if I explain that the guidance on the gov.uk website does not extend to vehicles converted to motor caravans before first registration. These vehicles have undergone special purpose type approval prior to registration to meet specified environmental and safety standards. Motor caravans converted post registration are not subject to this or any additional testing post conversion. If you require more information on type approval and individual vehicle approval (IVA) inspections etc. please contact the Driver and Vehicle Standards Agency (DVSA) at:
Ellipse
Padley Road
Swansea
SA1 8AN
Tel: 0300 123 9000
E-mail: enquiries@vosa.gov.uk
I am sorry I am unable to assist you further but hope this information has helped clarify the Agency’s position on the matter.
Now if what she writes is true that commercially converted unregistered vehicles have "undergone special purpose type approval prior to registration to meet specified environmental and safety standards" prior to registration that is a new one for me!
Yes I do know that any conversions on vans when using an ALCO or similar extended chassis have to meet and comply with special tests, but most certainly not (as far as I know) any professional conversion of a panel van.
Can someone please correct me if I am wrong?
Phil
Regards
Mrs Lisa J John
Dear Mr. McDonald;
Thank you for your further email.
I am sorry my previous reply did not answer your enquiry.
It may help if I explain that the guidance on the gov.uk website does not extend to vehicles converted to motor caravans before first registration. These vehicles have undergone special purpose type approval prior to registration to meet specified environmental and safety standards. Motor caravans converted post registration are not subject to this or any additional testing post conversion. If you require more information on type approval and individual vehicle approval (IVA) inspections etc. please contact the Driver and Vehicle Standards Agency (DVSA) at:
Ellipse
Padley Road
Swansea
SA1 8AN
Tel: 0300 123 9000
E-mail: enquiries@vosa.gov.uk
I am sorry I am unable to assist you further but hope this information has helped clarify the Agency’s position on the matter.
______________________________________________________________________
Now if what she writes is true that commercially converted unregistered vehicles have "undergone special purpose type approval prior to registration to meet specified environmental and safety standards" prior to registration that is a new one for me!
Yes I do know that any conversions on vans when using an ALCO or similar extended chassis have to meet and comply with special tests, but most certainly not (as far as I know) any professional conversion of a panel van.
Can someone please correct me if I am wrong?
Phil
Regards
Mrs Lisa J John
NickB
Lisa J John
Was one of the officials I wrote to earlier in my quest for information regarding speed limits... she said nothing to do with DVLA try DfT..... DfT said nothing to do with us try DVLA.....
Eventually today I had the reply above from DVLA (Mr.Johnson Yuen) see above post in this thread.
Millie Master
Forum Member
Thanks for that Nick, I had the distinct feeling that she was a buck passing jobsworth!!
By any chance could you pm the email address to me of Mr. Johnson Yuen?
Phil
voyager
Forum Member
I thought they were refusing re-classification because they are claiming they look like a van with windows and don't look like a motor caravan - what has that got to do with type approval. So we can basically have 2 identical vehicles and because one has type approval it can be classified as a motor caravan and the identical one that does not have type approval is classified as a van with windows. !
wildebus
Forum Member
It demonstrates to me that there is an ulterior motive that is not being disclosed and all those "doesn't look like..." rejections are excuses to avoid reclassification.
I've not had a replay to my FOI rquest that was required middle of last week either, so they are in breach of their legal obligations there also.
I've not had a replay to my FOI rquest that was required middle of last week either, so they are in breach of their legal obligations there also.
Millie Master
Forum Member
Yesterday, on receipt of the email address of Yuen Johnson, kindly forwarded to me by NickB, I duly sent a further email to him asking for his help and assistance on this matter.
Well a few moments ago I received yet another reply from the obstructive Mrs. Lisa John in which she passed comment on my contact with her colleague!
Thank you for further email sent to Johnson Yuen who work in our Vehicle Policy Section. Your email has been forwarded to me to respond on his behalf.
We are unable to comment on individual cases but each application is looked at by a case-by-case basis. DVLA policies and processes are regularly reviewed to ensure they are being adhered to correctly, and to ensure consistency in our decision-making a team of experienced clerks deal with applications for motor caravan conversions, ensuring that all evidence provided is carefully scrutinised. While the policy relating to the allocation of body types has not changed, following customer feedback we are currently reviewing the information provided on GOV.UK so that customers have greater clarity about the information and the actions they need to take when converting a vehicle to a motor caravan.
I trust this confirms our position.
Regards
Well a few moments ago I received yet another reply from the obstructive Mrs. Lisa John in which she passed comment on my contact with her colleague!
________________________________________________________________________________
Thank you for further email sent to Johnson Yuen who work in our Vehicle Policy Section. Your email has been forwarded to me to respond on his behalf.
We are unable to comment on individual cases but each application is looked at by a case-by-case basis. DVLA policies and processes are regularly reviewed to ensure they are being adhered to correctly, and to ensure consistency in our decision-making a team of experienced clerks deal with applications for motor caravan conversions, ensuring that all evidence provided is carefully scrutinised. While the policy relating to the allocation of body types has not changed, following customer feedback we are currently reviewing the information provided on GOV.UK so that customers have greater clarity about the information and the actions they need to take when converting a vehicle to a motor caravan.
I trust this confirms our position.
Regards
________________________________________________________________________________
Patently Mrs. John isn't a woman who likes being questioned!!!
Last edited:
Garywrench
Finally received my V5 this morning changed to Motor Caravan, some may recall this is my second attempt - didn’t have any graphics at the first attempt and apparently didn’t look like a Motor Caravan..... Happy now
Garywrench
Yep, only put stickers on to get Motor Caravan. 
Millie Master
Forum Member
Yep, only put stickers on to get Motor Caravan.
Doesn't it make you sick!
But by the way Gary, I think your efforts look like the absolute dogs danglies, have you ever put up any images of the inside as I was wondering how you treated the H3 roof area?
Phil
Garywrench
wildebus
Forum Member
This line is very interesting .... "If a keeper is satisfied that the vehicle meets the definition of a motor caravan then it can be operated it as such regardless whether or not the DVLA have registered it as such in the ‘body type’ field."
I have not seen that stated so unequivocally before. A very useful bit of info there
wildebus
Forum Member
Below is an extract of some of the letter MM received. I have highlighted one portion
So the policy has NOT changed then?
And they are in the process of clarifying the information to customers about that unchanged policy?
That doesn't really register with the information I eventually got and have put into a table
If the policy hasn't changed, there must suddenly be an awfully large number of people who can't read a straightforward list of requirements.
A success rate from 95% less than two years ago down to below half now is a pretty dramatic shift.
They wouldn't provide me with the reasons for refusal as 'too expensive to provide' (there is a cost limit clause on FOIRs)
So the policy has NOT changed then?
And they are in the process of clarifying the information to customers about that unchanged policy?
That doesn't really register with the information I eventually got and have put into a table
If the policy hasn't changed, there must suddenly be an awfully large number of people who can't read a straightforward list of requirements.
A success rate from 95% less than two years ago down to below half now is a pretty dramatic shift.
They wouldn't provide me with the reasons for refusal as 'too expensive to provide' (there is a cost limit clause on FOIRs)