AC Fridge In Campervan -.Power Consumption Test

trevskoda

Forum Member
This has been quite a cool subject but after reading im still puzeled if i should dump or fitt my 3 way fridge,i missed a 230v mini table top fridge in charity shop for £20,i knew i should have bought it.:mad1:
I have a 12v cool box but i dont think there any good as they only go down 20c below amb temp,as my van hits easy 35c that would leave it at 15c.
 

wildebus

Forum Member
This has been quite a cool subject but after reading im still puzeled if i should dump or fitt my 3 way fridge,i missed a 230v mini table top fridge in charity shop for £20,i knew i should have bought it.:mad1:
I have a 12v cool box but i dont think there any good as they only go down 20c below amb temp,as my van hits easy 35c that would leave it at 15c.
It will depend on the Mini Fridge, but a lot of those mini fridges are energy hogs and noisy to boot! (I've stayed in some hotels which have had little table-top fridges as mini-bars and have had to turn off the fridge at night to be able to sleep)

The first "cooling solution" I bought for my first camper was a standard 12V cool box - not only do they cool down to only 20C below ambient, but they are also energy hogs and usually very noisy. In fact, I called the supplier of the coolbox (it cost around £60 I think) to ask them about the noise as more than I expected - they refunded my money and told me to destroy the coolbox!
That is when I gave in and moved to 12V Compressor Devices - nearly silent and much more efficient.
I think I did mention many times my testing was with an A++ Class fridge - that is the most energy efficient electric fridge class available.


Ok - personal opinion .... If I bought a 'typical' Motorhome this is what I would very very likely do ...

3-Way Fridge installed?
If it worked, I would probably keep it. Why not, it works and is (I understand) fairly cheap to run.
If it was broken and needed replacing, then I would certainly think twice about a like-for-like replacement as the cost of a good AC Fridge, Inverter and Extra Battery (or Solar Panel - that is another potential way to cover the extra electricity used) is probably similar to the cost of a new 3-Way (I'm guessing a bit here).

If the gas system on this 'typical' Motorhome was in need of repairs of any significant level, involving parts and external labour for gas expertise; then that would push me PERSONALLY to look at possibility of getting rid of gas applicances and moving to electric.
In my last conversion, I installed a twin-burner gas hob, but already I was using a portable induction hob by choice in order to use spare battery power and also generate less heat.

Here is a little YouTube video discussing the topic of Gas vs Induction for cooking in a Motorhome.
[video=youtube_share;XmRy9s-41KY]https://youtu.be/XmRy9s-41KY[/video]


I know other people are much happier using Gas for Fridge, Heating and Cooking - no problem. Different Strokes for Different Folks.
As I always planned to use a Diesel Heater for warmth and an Induction Hob for Cooking; plus I knew from previous experiences I would be using an Electric Compressor Fridge, the only possible use I have for gas would be as a water heater for a shower. And in that case, I would probably get a Diesel Air/Water Heater instead (I am not installing a full shower and have an Eberspacher electric heater like yours, Trev, for low-volume water heating).

So no gas available OR planned - and hence why MY test focussed on comparing AC and DC Compressor Fridges and didn't bring 3-Ways into at all. If anyone wants to do that Gas vs Electric comparision (or has already and can post links) that would be great. I can't and won't as my knowledge of 3-Way Fridges is all second-hand by reading and the last time I used a Gas Fridge was around 40 years ago and I imagine things have moved on since then?
 

wildebus

Forum Member
You really can't avoid adding some dig, can you? The reason you answer my points is that they are valid and relevant.
You may have noticed that my reply CORRECTED your invalid points from the point of the test environment.
I.E. you may well want a fridge to operate at 6C or whatever temperature you said, but having set it at a lower temp for the duration of the entire test is not invalid in any way.
When I look at my photos of the gauge I see a variation of around 2C, around the 0C mark. That is an very easily acceptable range. When I look at data for my Weaco CRX-50 (a unit costing 2.5x the money) from 2026, I saw fluctuations in operating temp of a fair range. It's what happens in fridges.
What is a gas fridge like? I recall recent posts on here complaining about the vagaries of 3-way fridges randomly freezing food. Like I said. It is what basic non-laboratory fridges do. Live with it. I do.
 

hairydog

You may have noticed that my reply CORRECTED your invalid points from the point of the test environment.
Wrong again. Nothing new there!

You claim to be testing the consumption of a compressor fridge. Unless you set the temperature to a credible and useable one, the test is undermined, which is a pity, because overall it is a good idea and very useful information.

As you have discovered, the inverter makes a huge difference, even though you pretend this isn't about testing inverters.

What happens if you use a modified sine wave inverter? They are cheaper, possibly less wasteful of power. But what would be the longer-term effects on the compressor motor?
 

hairydog

What is a gas fridge like? I recall recent posts on here complaining about the vagaries of 3-way fridges randomly freezing food. Like I said. It is what basic non-laboratory fridges do. Live with it. I do.
Yes, I've read those posts too. The trouble is that a 3-way fridge has to be properly installed, and most aren't.

My 3-way fridge has a separate freezer and I've only logged the temperature inside the fridge compartment. The logger takes a temperature reading every 15 minutes and stored it to memory.
USB RC-4 16000 Points Sensor Wide Measure Range Temperature Data-Logger Recorder | eBay

I recall it was surprisingly consistent, but I don't seem to have saved the log. Or if I have, I don't remember what I called it.

The test was several months ago, so the data will have scrolled off the logger by now. I'll try to remember to put a logger into the fridge for the next trip away.
 
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wildebus

Forum Member
Final Reply to Hairball Hound.


Goodbye :banana: :cool1: :wacko:
I will not be replying to any further messages from you as I will not see any more messages from you. You are on my Ignore List (I doubt being on an Ignore List is a new experience for you though).
Hairball.png


You can save your rubbish and nonsence for others to read. I won't be doing so. :wave:


So just read the notice below, and to paraphrase the immortal words of Mick Belker, "see ya, Hairball"
:dnd:

(PS. don't bother replying to this note. Coz I won't see it :lol-049: )
 

trevskoda

Forum Member
I think all folk are entiteled to there opinion even mr dogy,i never put people on eg list cose if i did 50% of the world may be on it which does not leave a balanced vieu,again only my opinion,as for fridges and info ,more please as all info i take in.
 

wildebus

Forum Member
I think all folk are entiteled to there opinion even mr dogy,i never put people on eg list cose if i did 50% of the world may be on it which does not leave a balanced vieu,again only my opinion,as for fridges and info ,more please as all info i take in.
sometimes drastic measures are required in order to avoid saying things unsuitable for family viewing :ninja:
 

hairydog

Final Reply to Hairball Hound.


Goodbye :banana: :cool1: :wacko:
I will not be replying to any further messages from you as I will not see any more messages from you. You are on my Ignore List (I doubt being on an Ignore List is a new experience for you though).
Hairball.png


You can save your rubbish and nonsence for others to read. I won't be doing so. :wave:


So just read the notice below, and to paraphrase the immortal words of Mick Belker, "see ya, Hairball"
:dnd:

(PS. don't bother replying to this note. Coz I won't see it :lol-049: )
No, but everyone else will see it, and see what a pillock you are making of yourself.
 

hairydog

The problem is that Wildebus seems to like to pretend that he is the only person on the planet with any technical expertise. And really doesn't like any of his pronouncements questioned. Which is a shame, because he really isn't stupid.
 

wildebus

Forum Member
Im not fused on external screens just incase one has to move quick,or when sleeping they get nicked,id go for internal one to be honest but to each there own.
Just gone for a set of External screens AND Internal ones :)
Seller had a good combo deal so decided to cover both bases :cool1:
Still need to sort out internal covers/blinds for the side windows and rear windows, but have a plan for those :rockroll:
 

molly 2

Sterling did a comparison test on you tube testing 12 v absorption 12 v compressor 240 v domestic with inverts .the 240 v + inverta came out very well.
 

hairydog

Sterling did a comparison test on you tube testing 12 v absorption 12 v compressor 240 v domestic with inverts .the 240 v + inverta came out very well.
Yes, but it only made sense if you already had a very expensive pure sine wave inverter already.
Sterling make them, so understandably their comparison assumed you would buy one of them whatever sort of fridge you choose.
If you don't assume there is a Sterling inverter installed already, the 12v fridge looked a far better bet.
 

wildebus

Forum Member
Something I have been looking into is if my Victron 12/500 Inverter should be uprated due to the inrush current when the fridge starts? Or maybe fitting a Hard Start kit to the fridge which lowers the inrush?

When the fridge is running it runs at around 55W, but the inrush current that gives the compressor its kick start is 10x that power, albeit for just 3 seconds.
I am loathe to get a larger inverter just for this as the running power demands for the inverter with the devices I plan to use on it is well within the capacity of the 12/500 unit, but what is the longer term situation with that regular overload current ?

OK, spec of 12/500 Inverter? Victron are different to most manufacturers in that the figure quoted in the description is in VAs and not in Watts. There is a common 'rule' saying P=VI == Power (W) = Voltage (V) x Current (A), and on that basis, VA is the same as Watts, but not really the case as down if the load is Capactive or Inductive.
Victron DO quote a Watt Rating for their 12/500 Inverter - @25C it is 400W; and at @40C it is just 350W. These are continuous power ratings.
Another key number is the Peak Power Rating - and for the 12/500, this is 900W, so over twice the continuous rating and above the inrush power of 550W :)
Check the specs of the Pheonix Inverters with vedirect (for remote monitoring) here:
Phoenix Inverter VE.Direct - Victron Energy

Listening to a Webinar from Victron Energy about Inverters and Overloads, the products are designed to deal with temporary overloads due to motor startups. It is ok to run at the peak load for upto 2 minutes if voltage is ok, 30 cycles (so 1/2 second if voltage is lower), or upto 30% overload for 30 minutes.
So essentially the 12/500 goes into overload on each inrush current, with associated alarm light, BUT it is operating well within its design spec.
This is the Webinar here:
[video=youtube;4SXtGIx0x5w]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4SXtGIx0x5w[/video]


So end conclusion... No changes needed :)
Note that the above is for Victron Inverters and using Victron info for their inverters. Another brand of inverter will likely have different parameters and ways to deal with overloads (my 1000W Basic PSW Inverter never went into overload as inrush was lower then standard rating. Another 500W basic inverter I had protested if the power ever went above slightly over 500W!).
I could have bought the 12/800 or the 12/1200, but the price difference between those and the 12/500 is pretty significant.

Come the summertime I will review this again :dance:
 

activecampers

Forum Member
Interesting thread (apart from the bitchiness! Blimey - its only the internet!)

Im not a believer of AC being worth it, but more of a belief than fact, so good to see facts written down. Look forward to long term results. Interesting how often the fridge cuts in, our 12v Vitifrigo cuts in more often.

Something you may be interested in - Heat sensor - TOOGOO(R) DC 12V Thermostats Temperature heat sensor switch -50 ~ 110 !a C: Amazon.co.uk: Kitchen & Home - I have one wired to an extra fan (12v quiet PC fan) on the back to increase airflow and improve efficiency. You may get some savings there. Also another one with the sensor in the fridge could digitally switch the inverter on and power the fridge. (e.g. leave fridge on "as cold as possible" and use the digital thermometer to set the desired temp? Again - some power savings on the inverter being off.)

Good luck, and well done for trying

PS is your inverter pure sine wave? I've seen some interesting issues on non pure inverters that I'd not want to put any decent kit on the other end!
 

wildebus

Forum Member
Interesting thread (apart from the bitchiness! Blimey - its only the internet!)

Im not a believer of AC being worth it, but more of a belief than fact, so good to see facts written down. Look forward to long term results. Interesting how often the fridge cuts in, our 12v Vitifrigo cuts in more often.

Something you may be interested in - Heat sensor - TOOGOO(R) DC 12V Thermostats Temperature heat sensor switch -50 ~ 110 !a C: Amazon.co.uk: Kitchen & Home - I have one wired to an extra fan (12v quiet PC fan) on the back to increase airflow and improve efficiency. You may get some savings there. Also another one with the sensor in the fridge could digitally switch the inverter on and power the fridge. (e.g. leave fridge on "as cold as possible" and use the digital thermometer to set the desired temp? Again - some power savings on the inverter being off.)

Good luck, and well done for trying

PS is your inverter pure sine wave? I've seen some interesting issues on non pure inverters that I'd not want to put any decent kit on the other end!
Hi, I am planning to fit a fan but have it controlled by a thermistor. Sounds like the unit you linked to would do the trick :)

The inverter is for other devices as well as the fridge, so while a good suggestion for remote on, not for my purposes. I can turn the inverter on and off remotely through a Bluetooth App. (And in ECO mode, the standby use is very small anyway)

My inverters are PSW. The price of PSW inverters have dropped a fair bit and little over the MSW ones.
 

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