Do you carry a scooter or motorbike in your garage?

#61
I thought there were strict rules (drugs, weapons etc) about when police could search inside your vehicle. On a routine DVSA inspection, wouldn't opening the garage be a search, rather than a vehicle inspection?
 

Squiffy

Full Member
#62
Yes Chris,
But what folk are not aware of is that as far as vehicles are concerned the DVSA have far more powers than Mr Plod, and on a roadside spot check they are checking for conformity to construction and use of a vehicle, this is why it is not left to the police alone to do these spot checks.

Mr Plod is not trained in the construction and use of all vehicles which requires the observation of loads and load capasity etc, ( Looking into the garage of a vehicle checking what is carried on the tow bar is included ) so DVSA are present to report that an offence has taken place to Mr Plod, Plod then informs the driver that he or she has committed an offence under the Road traffic act and is being reported to the commissioner's office, where the case is then sent to court and prosecuted. If the driver them decides to have his or her day in court the police will present as their professional witness the DVSA officer ( Not Mr Plod ) who inspected the vehicle in the first place and unless he made a complete muck up of his findings his statement will stand up in court.

There is a lot more to this than meets the eye and I'm working on it behind the scenes
But what I can say at the present is that because VOSA were government funded this situation never came to the fore, now that DVSA are self funded it has put a whole different slant on it, ( It's all to do with MoT classification and money made by carring out an MoT test) I'll leave you for a bit of fun to work out why and will give you my explanation when I've got it all ready to present to the major motorhome clubs.🙄Phil
 


Squiffy

Full Member
#63
Ok all I have had a reply from The Caravan and motorhome club.

The answer is as follows.

Dear Phil



Martin Spencer our technical manager has looked into your enquiry and read your attached e/mails.

He has concluded that the information fed back by DVSA is incorrect and would not hold up in a court of law.

The only time the motorhomes identity could be questionable is if at M,O,T stage the motorbike was left on the motorhomes rack and he still thinks this would be arguable ..

So going forward he says that to ignore the hearsay on this, and if anyone was fined they should seek legal advice and appeal the offence.

We do have meetings with DVSA and DVLA and will bring this up when next in communication with these associations.

If you feel this answer is not satisfactory we suggest maybe speaking to the clubs legal help line for extra advice.

Phone number is on your membership card.



Thanks.





Dave Frost

Technical Advisor

Caravan and Motorhome Club

T: +44 (0) 1342 336611

E: technical@camc.com

W: www.camc.com

Hope this helps folk who are in trepidation

Phil. 👌
 


#64
We are getting somewhere,all we can do is either hope no one here gets shafted or the said person who sup did goes back to court,i would thing the caravan/camping club will verif this and let us know.
Thank you for those who have helped on this so far from me.
 


#65
Sounds like if I did have a problem at least the Caravan club should back me up - been a member a long time.
 

Squiffy

Full Member
#67
Had a reply from The Caravan and Camping club technical department, and they have given almost the same reply as The Caravan and Motorhome Club. Phil
 


#68
Had a reply from The Caravan and Camping club technical department, and they have given almost the same reply as The Caravan and Motorhome Club. Phil
My concern is Phil is that if there is any grey area at all, then an (underhand, self funding) organisation such as the DVSA might try and make something about nothing which is why this matter surely needs addressing at ministry level so that any and all suspicion is removed, which is hopefully what the combined strengths of the C&MC and C&CC might be able to accomplish?

Well done Phil, hopefully they will both be keeping you informed.

Phil
 

Squiffy

Full Member
#69
Yes Phil they have both promised that they will keep me informed on development.🙂Phil
 


#70
Thanks Phil, much appreciate chasing that up . My vans specifically for carrying my trail bike and I obviously camp in it when I’m out and about so affects me
 


#71
I hav'nt checked but maybe I forgot to post the email that I recieved from the head of department of HGV and PSV in Swansea.

Good morning,



These are the definitions in The Road Vehicles(Construction and Use) Regulations 1986 as amended.



motor caravan

a motor vehicle which is constructed or adapted for the carriage of passengers and their

effects and which contains, as permanently installed equipment, the facilities which are

reasonably necessary for enabling the vehicle to provide mobile living accommodation

for its users.



Living Van,

a vehicle used primarily as living accommodation by one or more persons, and which

is also used for the carriage of goods or burden which are not needed by such one

or more persons for the purpose of their residence in the vehicle.



A motorbike is not needed for the purpose of their residence in the vehicle it is an optional extra so therefore the vehicle carrying a motorbike is a living van and not motorhome.

Those lockers are for carrying items such as an awning and furniture to use in that awning for example. Or a disabled scooter if one of the occupants is disabled.



If you do not like this, and it would appear that you do not, you will need to take it up with your MP to see if you can get that regulation changed.



Regards



Philip Harrison



Heavy Vehicle Technical Officer.
Driver and Vehicle Standards Agency | Ellipse, Padley Road, Swansea, SA1 8AN
Phone: 01792454206, Fax 01792 454387

I am obliged to emphasise that this advice is the view of DVSA and is not intended to be an interpretation of the law;
Only a court of law is able to give a legal, definitive interpretation
Screenshot (41)_LI.jpg

Thought this might be handy to know
 
#72
So reading that highlighted paragraph, if the motorbike being carried can be argued is for the use of going to the shops so as to reduce the carbon footprint of a non-eco-friendly diesel van, then surely it is being carried to enhance "the purpose of their residence in the vehicle" whilst also, at the same time being environmentally conscientious!! ;)
 
#73
As said earlier on in this thread Phil, a VOSA or Traffic policeman would have to be a bit of a jobs worth to report anyone in what after all is a motor home for carrying a motorcycle that is obviously used to transport the occupants for social activities. I think this is a situation that has been given a hypothetical reasoning and taken out of context.🙄Phil
 


#74
This was posted by me earlier for those that might be new to the thread.

Ok all I have had a reply from The Caravan and motorhome club.

The answer is as follows.

Dear Phil



Martin Spencer our technical manager has looked into your enquiry and read your attached e/mails.

He has concluded that the information fed back by DVSA is incorrect and would not hold up in a court of law.

The only time the motorhomes identity could be questionable is if at M,O,T stage the motorbike was left on the motorhomes rack and he still thinks this would be arguable ..

So going forward he says that to ignore the hearsay on this, and if anyone was fined they should seek legal advice and appeal the offence.

We do have meetings with DVSA and DVLA and will bring this up when next in communication with these associations.

If you feel this answer is not satisfactory we suggest maybe speaking to the clubs legal help line for extra advice.

Phone number is on your membership card.



Thanks
 


#75
I've just encountered a prickly exchange with a mot tester saying that he would refuse to test a class 4 motorhome if it had a large storage area within it. Stating that he would consider it HGV if over 3.5 tonnes. Funnily enough the next day I was lucky to have a conversation with 2 DVSA HGV and PSV examiners whilst on a tea break. I asked the question about motorhome storage and presenting said vehicle as a HGV, the respond was along the lines of "we don't test motorhomes". I think there would be issues in obtaining a plating certificate any ways.

I suspect if you look at your vehicle registration document it state that it's Light Goods Vehicle or Private Heavy Good Vehicle or something like that.
The main point being "Good Vehicle" So you can carry your own goods what ever they may be providing you stay in your weight limit.
It has been suggested you can't carry any goods in a private heavy goods vehicle, not even your own. This must be wrong as it can't be any kind goods vehicle if you are not allowed to carry anything in it.

Your registration document should not class your motorhome as N1 or N2, the correct class is M1 special purpose.

Back to said MOT examiner, he also used the expression "Living Van" if it was not a motorhome in his opinion. What the hell is a Living Van!
So I did some hunting and it seems to relate to "Showmen's" accommodation. For example if you had a large trailer that would normally require ministry testing, it would be exempt from testing as a "living van" Also it could be motorised as the accommodation could be a vehicle used to carry part or all of said show.

Just a note about Philip Harrison whom we've been in communication with, He's pointed out his expertise is in Heavy Vehicle Technical issues.
A very helpful man all the same.
 
#76
When they say a scooter im thinking they mean a mobilty one as apposed to motor cycle,time will tell but im sure stricter enforcements will come into play in near future.
 
#77
The beauty of it is Squirrel that you can do the tour of MoT stations till you find a tester who will test it as a motor home 🙂. Phil
 
#79
The down side is trying to find someone with big enough facilities for 8mtrs plus vehicles.
plus if you have a >3t van, it has to be a garage that can deal with class 7 MOTs (I know all Motorhomes are class 4, but non-Motor Caravan Class 4s stop at 3t) and >3.5t gets even harder on the lift aspect.

I go to a commercial garage/test station for my current 4.6t van. They just have a pit.
 
#80
I did ask if they were required to see your V5 or if they looked it up. The response was that they have a list of minimum requirements, and if this list is met it will be tested "as presented" Hence our Plaxton Cheetah Coach has a Class 4 Motorhome MOT certificate.
Apparently all Motorhomes are Class 4 regardless of weight, I haven't checked but if your plus 7.5tonnes this can't be true?
 
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