VW Crafter MWB Build

[mb2tv]

You could fit an Eberspacher hydronic (or other make) in the engine bay or under the vehicle somewhere out the way and pipe that to an internal hot water tank. I did see that Scots guy on YouTube had hold of a Chinese version of one last year but don’t know if they are mainstream yet. That does away with gas and vents if it’s vents and more internal space you are after.

We looked at hydronic systems and did not like them much. They are more complex (there is the additional complexity of dealing with the liquid) as well as some of them rely on connecting it to the van engine coolant which i want to avoid (also the van is new, so do not want to invalidate the warranty). Webasto had a nice system, similar to the Truma (which is a collaboration with Eberspacner) but they now withdraw this product. I think i will find space, it is just that Truma calls for different space requirements, and it requires another Tetris game. I am not a fan of the Chinese products ( there is the JP one which seem to be a copy of the Truma) as they might be cheap, but reliability is questionable - at least this is my opinion.

 

[SquirrellCook]

The plumbing circuits for the hydronic are misleading. It’s just a central heating boiler.

 

[mb2tv]

Sorry for not updating...life happens in the middle.
Van is progressing, though very slow. I have the sense that it is kicking me back in every aspect and I need to find ways to overcome this. I guess this is normal for a first build.
I think most of the time is taken to decide on components, and then try to fit them.
We also decided to go to someone to fit the additional seats, as I do not think I trust myself with that.
So - partial walls are in, the bed location and mountings are in, shower room walls are in, even the showroom fan is in. The seats are now fitted and I started building the floor around them, and the raised floor around them.
I also removed the headliner in the cab and insulated the the metal work. roof liner is now back (no, we do not want a shelf there, at least at the moment).
The current 'debate' is where to locate the electric system (batteries, inverter fuse boxes etc ). As the space around the seats is not as usable as space in the garage, we thought of placing the system there. The main pro is gaining space in the garage.

The battle continues.

 

[wildebus]

These things always take much longer then expected I found, especially as things change as you look and visualise the build.

Couple of comments about your post....
1) seats fitted... I am sure this is already in your plan, but make sure the person fitting them bolts them right through the chassis floor and there is some kind of load-spreading underneath.
It is quite remarkable how so many people will fix a seat to the ply flooring or if lucky to the metal floor with screws and give it a tug test and declare it is secure.

2) you are thinking of using space around the seating for electrical kit. Just be aware that things like Inverters and often Chargers can be quite noisy in operation. You might want to try some kind of sound-test to check it is ok in a living space in the evening or overnight when you are wanting to sleep? Not saying it is a bad idea at all, just the potential noise factor.

 

[Millie Master]

Over my many, many years of chatting to motorhome and campervan owners, almost every one of them clearly said that the major problem they had with their van was the lack of storage space.
So the smaller the van then the need for as much storage space as possible will normally become ever more important.

 

[mb2tv]

These things always take much longer then expected I found, especially as things change as you look and visualise the build.

Couple of comments about your post....
1) seats fitted... I am sure this is already in your plan, but make sure the person fitting them bolts them right through the chassis floor and there is some kind of load-spreading underneath.
It is quite remarkable how so many people will fix a seat to the ply flooring or if lucky to the metal floor with screws and give it a tug test and declare it is secure.

2) you are thinking of using space around the seating for electrical kit. Just be aware that things like Inverters and often Chargers can be quite noisy in operation. You might want to try some kind of sound-test to check it is ok in a living space in the evening or overnight when you are wanting to sleep? Not saying it is a bad idea at all, just the potential noise factor.

Thank you for that!
The seats were fitted by a company specialising in fitting seatbelts. They replace seatbelts and retrofit seatbelts to cars and racing cars. The seats are on a frame manufactured by them, it is fitted with high tensile bolts and have proper spreaders under. Safety is a concern, that is why i did not do it myself (and i do not have experience welding...) That is why they did it. But, i also looked at what they did and it looks good.

As for the electrics, in my head it was always placed in the garage, so trying now to think of all the pros and cons of moving it around the seat. The distance of the seat frame from the wall is big enough (with margins) to fit the batteries, and also there is a space for four of them. The rest of it ( inverters, chargers and fuses) will fit on the shower wall behind the seat. This space otherwise is not very convenient to access so gaining the equivalent space in the garage seem to be a bonus. The noise issue is a good point, but i thought the 'main' noisy part is the inverter, and that will not work at night as the inverter will only be needed for cooking and i do not see it working during the night. I was also worried about heat- as it will be on the shower wall ( maybe create a small air gap for safety).

Still not sure which way to go, so thank you for the input!

 

[mb2tv]

Over my many, many years of chatting to motorhome and campervan owners, almost every one of them clearly said that the major problem they had with their van was the lack of storage space.
So the smaller the van then the need for as much storage space as possible will normally become ever more important.

We are well aware of the space issue. Having a caravan make you aware of these issues, though we are going to have less storage then the caravan. Fitting the electrical system behind the seats will create more usable space, but the system will not take the whole area and some storage will still be available ( the floor under the seats will be raised creating some storage).
All good point - thank you!

 

[Millie Master]

I only made my suggestion when I read that you had got rid of the overhead storage area in the cab where in my Renault Master (medium roof) I made it into a proper storage lidded area where I can store all our walking coats 6 in total, all the dog coats 4 in total, a king size throw over fleace and numerous other squashable items.

 

[wildebus]

The need to reduce Inverter noise is very user-specific for sure. If it is used for something like a Hairdryer only, you'd never hear it if it were 6" from your ear Microwave would be same kind of situation. In your case, not a problem with the envisaged use
I am mindful of inverter noises as I use (and specify them) for use with 240V fridges, where the inverter can come on at any time day or night and the 'wrong' inverter can be annoying.
It is similar - and maybe more relevant - with chargers which are likely to be running overnight if on site with EHU. I have replaced Chargers that have worked fine with different chargers in the past for people, the issue being the charger had a fan which always ran - so on campsite was just too annoying to live with.

I only made my suggestion when I read that you had got rid of the overhead storage area in the cab where in my Renault Master (medium roof) I made it into a proper storage lidded area where I can store all our walking coats 6 in total, all the dog coats 4 in total, a king size throw over fleace and numerous other squashable items.

Overcab storage is a tricky one
My VW LT, like the Sprinters and Crafters, didn't have any kind of overhead storage area as standard (unlike the Masters, Transits and others). This is nice in one way as it keeps the whole cab area open and it remains part of the overall camper as the ceiling line is a continuation.
However the downside is that there is potentially a lot of space that could be utilised which is wasted? I tried experimenting with the LT and put a "soft shelf" above the cab where I would have maybe liked a storage shelf just to see how I could live with it ... I found I kept hitting the shelf with my head as I moved from cab to rear (in that camper build, the cab seats were the main seating area FWIW). I decided to cancel the thoughts of having a shelf there!

On my current Motorhome, there is an overcab bed and on this one I am finding I usually don't bother to slide the bed back and leave it in "sleep mode", which does cut down the headroom in the cab a fair bit (so the opposite of the LT in fact). But I have got used to it and it doesn't bother me - but I think a key difference is that although the cab seats swivel around I don't tend to use them and use the side benches instead. If I were getting into and out of the cab seats when parked up, that low roof could be quite an annoyance.

Conclusion on whether to fit a shelf or not? I have no conclusion

 

[mb2tv]

I only made my suggestion when I read that you had got rid of the overhead storage area in the cab where in my Renault Master (medium roof) I made it into a proper storage lidded area where I can store all our walking coats 6 in total, all the dog coats 4 in total, a king size throw over fleace and numerous other squashable items.

Yes, initially we thought of doing that, but we are afraid of banging our head in the shelf if we do that. It is still an 'open' issue, if needs be i will make a shelf, but at least at the moment it will stay without. Most of the time it will be only two in the van, so not sure how much storage is needed.
Thank you!

 

[Sprinter 1 cup]

Lots of storage is a good thing in a long wheel base ? . Untill you go near a weigh bridge. 3.5 is not 4 tonn.
I had to slim mine down and that storage up top is especially not working for me. ! we have 150kg on roof already.
You have to work smarter these day as the junk is sometimes just cheaper to buy as and when you need it.
Food clothes and water are my 1st things . Added. To van but thats 120kg . 5kg a bottle drinking water

Takeing most of the wood out and replacing with ally. And I will still be in the low 3400kg I hope..

If all your cupboards are full it is a much better ride, if not slower to keep the cuboards closed

 

[mb2tv]

Lots of storage is a good thing in a long wheel base ? . Untill you go near a weigh bridge. 3.5 is not 4 tonn.
I had to slim mine down and that storage up top is especially not working for me. ! we have 150kg on roof already.
You have to work smarter these day as the junk is sometimes just cheaper to buy as and when you need it.
Food clothes and water are my 1st things . Added. To van but thats 120kg . 5kg a bottle drinking water

Takeing most of the wood out and replacing with ally. And I will still be in the low 3400kg I hope..

If all your cupboards are full it is a much better ride, if not slower to keep the cuboards closed

The van is a MWB, and it is on a strict diet! I am not allowed to put anything in unless it is weighted and recorded on a spreadsheet. I hope to have at least 600kg for all the things not including fuel and water. At least at the moment we are ok. I will be wiser when i am done...

 

[Nabsim]

That’s why they invented trailers

 

[mb2tv]

That’s why they invented trailers

No!!! Not going there!
The whole idea of having a campervan is NOT to have a trailer. I am towing now for more than 10 years and it was ok, but always when you turn into a road you worry if it is too small, and if so will yo have where to turn back, and i did get into those situations, not once... It is not fun.

PS a tow bar is a heavy thing, and the van is on a diet

 

[Millie Master]

The van is a MWB, and it is on a strict diet! I am not allowed to put anything in unless it is weighted and recorded on a spreadsheet. I hope to have at least 600kg for all the things not including fuel and water. At least at the moment we are ok. I will be wiser when i am done...

I couldn't agree with you more.
I built my L3 H2 Master to a lightweight construction method, the result of which is that even when fully loaded, along with the dogs and both my most beloved and myself, we still have an amazing 750kg load margin according to the weighbridge.

 

[mb2tv]

I couldn't agree with you more.
I built my L3 H2 Master to a lightweight construction method, the result of which is that even when fully loaded, along with the dogs and both my most beloved and myself, we still have an amazing 750kg load margin according to the weighbridge.

That is brilliant! I wish I can get to that, but not sure. The van started around 2000kg. I am using Garnica Efficiency, the pannels are going to painted. I have weighted the original floor the van came with, and just the floor is 20kg lighter! It is about the same thickness (12mm).
It is not just the 3500kg limit, the lighter the van will be the better the fuel consumption will be. According to the spreadsheet, we are at 400kg, and probably have about 200kg more, but that is an estimate.

 

[mb2tv]

Hello again - it has been a while since I have worked on the van - been away for a bit.
Now back to work.
The question I have is about water level meters:
I have seen the CBE ones. the issue is that I have an over the wheel arch tank and want more resolution than the 400mm CBE normally offer. I have seen a 700mm one, but it is not clear if it connects to the normal display (the one with combined water and waste).
Does anyone have any idea?
We decided we do not want the one with a separate digital display as I want something simple. I know it can connect to the Victron display but we want something very simple to read, that you do not have to scroll screens to see the eater level.
I have also seen water level gauges on Amazon - they have an analogue display - has anyone used those?
Many Thanks
M.

 

[MarkJ]

Take it you know you can cut the CBE ones to length (I think the shortest probe may be fixed) so that you could get the precision where you want it. And of course, the gauge will only read perfectly accurately if you're parked dead level! Which reinforces your point about not getting too clever about it - I think the simple CBE panel is about as clever as it's worth getting.

 

[wildebus]

I don't know if you are planning on having a Victron OS system (you mention a Victron Display), but if you are or could be in the future, I would suggest getting sensors that are compatible with say the Cerbo GX Tank Sensor inputs in case you do. Not all sensors are (I cannot use my tank sensors that connect to the Sargent system with the Cerbo GX for example)

 

[mb2tv]

I think an update is due:
not much work has been carried out during the summer, as I was away. Things are progressing slow, sometimes too slow, but I do not have a deadline to finish, so no harm done.
Had only very little time to work on the van, but it was useful as a lot of it is to do with placement.
We have finally decided to used a Bamboo worktop, and ordered vinyl flooring to match the colour that the Bamboo will be in (I am applying dye).
Since I am fitting a Truma 6De, it is quite bulky and the only place it can go is in the garage on the driver side as the exhaust need to come out on the side, and the Truma is too big to fit under the additional seats.
I think I have done all the side opening - water inlet, heater exhaust and electric hookup. I still have to do all the floor holes for the different services, but they are less scary. I also took David's advice and got water level gauges that will work with the Cerbo GX.

The dilemma I am facing now is to do with the batteries and electrical system location: Initially, we thought of fitting it around the additional passengers seats. Placing the Truma in the garage, there is a space that will fit the electrical system between the Truma and the rear doors. I only hesitation in my mind - I do not know how hot it gets around the Truma, as the batteries will be not that far - they will be over the wheel arch, above the Truma: there will be an air gap of about 2cm which I thought of putting insulation in so the batteries will not get hot even if the Truma does. The MPPT and the DC-DC will also be quite near.
Any thoughts?

Many thanks!