yeoblade
howsono
What direction does the hammer have to come from?
trevskoda
Forum Member
Depends on how many ears you have shreak.
Byronic
I bought my van originally as Commercial HGV, no seat belts required. When converted I had it reclassified as a Private HGV Class 4 Motor Caravan, seat belts were now required. With no mounting for the 3rd fixing point, the inner seat of the passenger double can only be a lap belt.
The reason for exemption from seat belt fitment I was informed.... "that it is considered impractical to expect a commercial delivery driver to be constantly taking off and putting on a seat belt".
Think I'd place a requirement for seat belts for side facing seats in the same category as seat belts for motorbikes.
The reason for exemption from seat belt fitment I was informed.... "that it is considered impractical to expect a commercial delivery driver to be constantly taking off and putting on a seat belt".
Think I'd place a requirement for seat belts for side facing seats in the same category as seat belts for motorbikes.
karlpe
Interesting views and thanks for all replies. As I said it was just for info and the bloke I was talking to fully believed he was able to carry people on his side seats.
mandrake
interesting discussion on the seatbelt laws in motorhomes and the differing ideas on the law .we have a traffic cop that goes in our local and i was asking him about the different laws concerning this subject , his answer was i couldent tell you to be truthful so i asked would you stop someone who was carting somebody about in the back of one probably unseatbelted he said i doubt i could see who if anybody was in the back of one there that high up and many have tinted widows so you just cannot see them . but like he said if your carrying passengers and you should have an accident and it was discovered that passengers were being carried in contravention of the law then you would be prosecuted and your insurance would probably be invalidated with all the consequences that ,that would entail . its that easy . he did say though that most vehicles state how many passengers can legaly be carried mine says seven most cars say 5 .sports cars majority say two, motorhomes are classed as berth and as far as he was concerned and how he reads the law , that was the maximum amount of passengers that vehicle was legally designed to carry retro fitting of seat belts and other seats capable of extra passengers such as double front belted seats from single seats could be classed as a modification , unless that modification has been notified to dvla and approved ,your insurance company told then in his eyes the vehicle is being used illegally .
mandrake
well ive been on to one of the best insurance companies for campers ,a flux and asked them .basicaly if you havent rear seat belts fitted to the seats forward ,back or side facing then no you cannot carry passengers .if your van is two berth then no more passengers can be carried only two or your insurance is void .
middlesbourough police traffic dept say no passengers may be carried in the rear of a camper/motorhome unless proper travel seats are fitted in the van ,with three point harness forward or rear facing . the seats that make up the beds or not intended/designed for traveling in are not acceptable even if fitted with belts as they would not be effective in an accident ,they would collapse irrespective of age of the vehicle so in there oppinion an offence would have taken place if there were passengers travelling on or in them .
so thats the insurances rules and the police rules . in fact the inspector i have just spoken to after i said its a grey area said in no uncertain terms ,no such thing as a grey area its the law .
so that basicaly stuffs me from a motorhome as i cannot afford a newer one with all legal seating .not only that i cannot justify the expence .
middlesbourough police traffic dept say no passengers may be carried in the rear of a camper/motorhome unless proper travel seats are fitted in the van ,with three point harness forward or rear facing . the seats that make up the beds or not intended/designed for traveling in are not acceptable even if fitted with belts as they would not be effective in an accident ,they would collapse irrespective of age of the vehicle so in there oppinion an offence would have taken place if there were passengers travelling on or in them .
so thats the insurances rules and the police rules . in fact the inspector i have just spoken to after i said its a grey area said in no uncertain terms ,no such thing as a grey area its the law .
so that basicaly stuffs me from a motorhome as i cannot afford a newer one with all legal seating .not only that i cannot justify the expence .
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trevskoda
Forum Member
Above almost correct,if built before 2000 no belts req but seating yes though no ins co will cover you,so in fact you are stuffed with a older van unless you have it converted and tested,mind you the proper test is a 12 ton pull with straps through winsheild opening but i think this may be for new units though there is no paper work to confirm this ,so a mot ins is good for ins co as long as it meets vech construction and use regs.
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mandrake
yes the seats must be designed for purpose ,not just the ones fitted as sofas or bed conversions .and they must be fitted securely to the vans chassis ,not just bolted through the plywood floor as i can make out which makes i a little hard to do and expensive unless it a van based conversion unlike my old bedford was . anyway realy the law and what it states is realy not important its the insurance companies final decision that realy counts if they wont cover you then you cannot use it ,thats if your truthful with them ,and if your not and anything happens then on your head be it . you can and will be in deep do do
mandrake
wonder if that would be acceptable to the insurance company ,would help a lot if its ok with them .
AuldTam
I think it boils down to common sense. What do you think?
trevskoda
Forum Member
Yes iv done me home work and all stated to ins co.
Buses have wooden floors with some having alloy slides to move seats back and forth like aircraft.
howsono
When I added my travelling seats (plated to above VOSA specs) I sent off the V5C to get the type converted to motor caravan, and then sent it back when I noted that they hadn't added the extra two seats. They were more than happy to add to the V5C on my say so. Been through two MOTs without a problem and I just notified the insurance that it had 4 seats and they were again happy. Moral of the story: retro fit!
If you've got a coach built I suppose it could be a pain to get them matching but wouldn't be *that* difficult to retrofit legal travelling seats if you're handy with a drill and socket set.
If you've got a coach built I suppose it could be a pain to get them matching but wouldn't be *that* difficult to retrofit legal travelling seats if you're handy with a drill and socket set.
mandrake
food for thought ,too busy at this moment to start converting and retro fitting seats in a van but over the coming months before next summer ,hopefully we will get one next year ,then a conversion may just be on the cards . not realy fussed about a full blown thing just something we could get away for a few days with . sounds as if a van conversion is my cuppa after all .
hairydog
That's the great thing about the law: it is writen down in very precise language and it is referenced and indexed. So perhaps you would ask him which law he is referring to? That answer to that would clarify matter a lot.