Not a Self-build, but a Tweaker

[Squiffy]

Something I am not that keen on with Motorhomes, Campers, etc, is the "12V" supply - as it is NOT 12V, but anything between 15V (if battery charger on on a very cold day) down to maybe below 11V (if Inverter pulling a lot of amps).
I have a bunch of 12V regulators that will bring the higher voltage down to ~12V (but not boost if lower than 12V), plus a couple of better buck-boost devices that provide a steady 12V, and they work quite well, but they are dotted all over the shop for the various 'domestic' 12V devices I have (those that are designed to be powered by a 12V DC regulated supply via a 240V AC Transformer).

As well as the Regulators, I also tried a DC-DC converter I had kicking around. This was not a very expensive item for the specs (not throwaway money either however).
View attachment 5122
This is a 248W 12V regulator, but I don't think it is really designed to be on 24/7 and it failed after a few months of constant use.

It is, I guess, a matter of 'you get what you pay for', so I decided to bite the bullet and go for another Blue Box from Victron.
So now to compare the 220W Victron DC-DC Converter with the generic 248W DC-DC Converter, there is a slight difference in the size ...
View attachment 5123

I am totally confident that the Victron Orion will be happy to be always on without a problem (and of course, there is a 5 year warranty if not!).
This is the Orion-Tr Smart, so is generally more usually found working as a Smart B2B Charger, but I elected to go for this rather than the 'normal' Orion-Tr straight DC-DC converter as it is a lot easier to configure and adjust via the Victron Smartphone App and you just set it into Power Supply Mode in order to use as a fixed output DC-DC converter.
View attachment 5124
This is connected in-between the Battery Bank and the Sargent EC325, so it ensures all the standard Habitation Electrics are supplied with a fixed 12V output (I haven't put a meter on the supply at the point it enters the Sargent unit yet. It might be with voltage drops on the run from Orion to Sargent that I need to up the 12.0V to maybe 12.1V say to give 12V at distribution point?).
The Sargent Hab electrics are protected by a 20A fuse and is limited to no greater than 20A, so an18A converter is just about perfect (I never see more than around 8-9A DC from the DC Habitation demand).

With the greatest respect Dave, as it is obvious your knowledge on electrical matters is good, but for the life of me I can't see the point of all this other than interest and experimentation. As I have been Caravanning and Motorhoming for many years and other than the hab batteries going west after 4-7 years of use I've personally never had a problem with varying voltages between charging and passive supply voltages, this includes the use of computerised equipment, tv's, Led's and radios etc. I have heard from forums and other discussion sites that varying voltages have destroyed this or that, especially when Led lighting became common use but oddly have never experienced this sort of phenomenon myself. I do like to keep up with modern technology and I am not adverse to using it but I will only pay if it has a definite advantage. I'm not being critical of your experimentation as most of what you write about I find interesting but as I say find it hard to justify the eye watering prices for equipment that in my view does very little on the surface even if physically it does make changes in the background,. Phil

 

[wildebus]

I guess thats one of the advantages of running Lithium, the 12v supply is always going to be limited to a max of 14.2V and with most series regulators now fitted to equipment having a max input voltage of 16v its not really a problem for me.
The current shunt on my Bailey control panel is very poor and has a significant volts drop in my opinion. The wiring is also definitely underrated so I used to see voltages less than 12v before I switched to Lithium.
A good idea nevertheless if your running Lead Acid.

14.2V is not good for a device that is specified to have a 12V input though, is it? battery type is irrelevant I think as you are still going to a significantly higher voltage than recommended even at 14.2V.
"...with most series regulators now fitted to equipment having a max input voltage of 16v" - what equipment is that you are refering to?

 

[wildebus]

With the greatest respect Dave, as it is obvious your knowledge on electrical matters is good, but for the life of me I can't see the point of all this other than interest and experimentation. As I have been Caravanning and Motorhoming for many years and other than the hab batteries going west after 4-7 years of use I've personally never had a problem with varying voltages between charging and passive supply voltages, this includes the use of computerised equipment, tv's, Led's and radios etc. I have heard from forums and other discussion sites that varying voltages have destroyed this or that, especially when Led lighting became common use but oddly have never experienced this sort of phenomenon myself. I do like to keep up with modern technology and I am not adverse to using it but I will only pay if it has a definite advantage. I'm not being critical of your experimentation as most of what you write about I find interesting but as I say find it hard to justify the eye watering prices for equipment that in my view does very little on the surface even if physically it does make changes in the background,. Phil

It is pretty commonplace for LEDs to fail prematurely when subjected to higher-than-design voltages, especially when they were originally for a domestic environment. "12V" TVs for motorhomes have a regulator usually in the power connection (which says to me they want a 12V supply, not a 14V supply. Amazon Echos run at a variety of voltages, depending on the model, but each one is preset to a stated voltage, not a range of voltages. You may not use those, for example, but I do.
I prefer to pre-empt things blowing up and failing and don't want to be restricted to "Motorhome ready" products, but what I prefer to choose to use.
If you decide something is not needed until you personally have experienced the need, save weight and remove the airbag from the drivers steering wheel maybe? Yes, that is a daft thing to say, but not much more so than your comment about hearing about problems caused by over-voltages and dismissing it as not applicable to you.

 

[mistericeman]

Can't say I've ever had an issue with the 12v side of things myself either (in all my years of messing about with vehicles and running 12v stuff....)
Even some of the half cocked stuff I did whenessing about with mobile radio gear etc...

In fact the only 12v leds I've ever had fail were some led replacement bulbs from China that looked dodgy as hell out of the packet...
The decent quality replacements I bought have been fine.

I guess there is no harm in using regulators etc if you wish...
But seems like extra complication and cost to me personally.

 

[PeteS]

14.2V is not good for a device that is specified to have a 12V input though, is it? battery type is irrelevant I think as you are still going to a significantly higher voltage than recommended even at 14.2V.
"...with most series regulators now fitted to equipment having a max input voltage of 16v" - what equipment is that you are refering to?

TVs mainly they generally have a 3v and 5v rail, 3v & 5v regulators in the majority have either 15 or 16v maximum ratings and seeing as most always employ reverse protection diodes which drops another .7v for a silicon rectifier diode you can see my point.
We were recently discussing the temperature controlled relay pcb ; 3v rail 15v max rating 0.7v protection diode so 15.7 max input on a nominal 12v.
There are only so many components out there for a designer to use. And if your designing kit for 12v use you will always use these same components.

 

[wildebus]

so you are saying that if I have a device that the label says "12V DC" I can feed it with upto 16V without fear of failure? result!

(It does make me wonder how I have two Amazon Echos, one that uses a 15V DC transformer and one that uses a 12V DC Transformer. Very silly of Amazon not to just use the single one transformer, no?
And why do better TV manufacturers bother putting regulators in the 12V plug to make sure they are not fed with high DC voltage? guess they like to waste money on unneccessary parts? )

When you say "And if your designing kit for 12v use you will always use these same components." what do you actually mean? do you mean "12V use" or do you mean "motorhome/RV use"? (very different meanings)

 

[wildebus]

Rejigged my Monitoring setup a touch after doing a few trials over the last couple of months ...

The Cerbo GX connects to a Hwawei 4G MiFi Router (which is installed to provide in-Motorhome Internet generally). That is all straightforward.

The Raspberry Pi that I originally used in the Campervan (before I upgraded to the Venus GX and then the Cerbo GX) I have now installed Home Assistant on instead (https://www.home-assistant.io/) and added the Victron Modbus Register info (this is how you get the Victron info into Home Assistant).
The RPi is connected to the Hwawei via a little mini-router. This is hard-cabled to the Pi (and powered by the Pi also) and then connected wirelessly to the MiFi (it is a bit of a quirk of Home Assistant that apparently it does not like a wi-fi connection on the device, and as my MiFi is Wi-Fi only, I needed a workround to get the two communicating).

This adds a different kind of view to the Victron Monitoring possibilities in the Native VRM, and also in the Node-Red. Because Home Assistant is standalone, you are bringing in the Victron info just like you are bring in any other info from other kit, so the possibility to have a much more integrated solution is there. I am still currently focusing on the Victron data initially but can also look at a lot more home automation stuff as well.

And it is much more colourful, which can be handy when you want a quick look at what is going on! This is my "Battery System Dashboard" showing key data for the Battery Banks - the overall Bank to tell me what is going on, plus a drilldown to the Lead and the Lithium Banks.

And a quick example of what mixed data is possible on a single view ...

So a simple view of the Leisure Batteries, 5 Day Weather Forecast (handy to see what to expect for both Solar Harvesting and getting out & about), Internet speed (useful for say using Firestick on TV) and a quick check on the temperatures.

 

[Squiffy]

It is pretty commonplace for LEDs to fail prematurely when subjected to higher-than-design voltages, especially when they were originally for a domestic environment. "12V" TVs for motorhomes have a regulator usually in the power connection (which says to me they want a 12V supply, not a 14V supply. Amazon Echos run at a variety of voltages, depending on the model, but each one is preset to a stated voltage, not a range of voltages. You may not use those, for example, but I do.
I prefer to pre-empt things blowing up and failing and don't want to be restricted to "Motorhome ready" products, but what I prefer to choose to use.
If you decide something is not needed until you personally have experienced the need, save weight and remove the airbag from the drivers steering wheel maybe? Yes, that is a daft thing to say, but not much more so than your comment about hearing about problems caused by over-voltages and dismissing it as not applicable to you.

The point I was making Dave is all though there are contributors saying that 12+ is destroying Led lights etc they in the main are quoting third party instances and not instances that have happened to them, they seem to have jumped on the band wagon and are distributing mis information. Which rather backs up my stance that it has never happened to me or to that mind, any of my friends and associates, and believe me I have used all sorts of cheap Chinese equipment and expensive Dutch and German equipment ( Probably constructed In China in any case). I am not inferring that you are spreading false info as you seem to be conducting a fairly scientific experiment, I am suggesting that in todays day and age electronics in general will tolerate a much larger variation in voltage than earlier electronic equipment. The other point I said was that the cost of specialised voltage stabilisation in my opinion far out wieghs
The possibility of financial loss by frying equipment, unless of course folk are using scientific highly sensitive equipment. I suppose in effect I'm questioning the cost over for me at least the small possibility of frying. Phil

 

[wildebus]

While I don't have first hand experience (as I take precautions), I do know numerous people who have blown up kit with overvoltage supplies and have occasionally supplied kit to those people to stop it happening again.

So with respect, YOUR experience of it never happening to you or anyone you know does not matter to me, as I KNOW it does.

 

[Squiffy]

Oh Dave! we aren't returning to the scenario of you flogging equipment on here again are we, that this is all really a disguised sales pitch, I rather hope not, as your experiments are as I said interesting in the main. It also seems that I'm not the only one on here that it has never happened to, not that it has never happened in the course of Motorhoming history, just that from my experience its negligible to non exsistant Phil.
C'est La Vie.

 

[wildebus]

Oh Dave! we aren't returning to the scenario of you flogging equipment on here again are we, that this is all really a disguised sales pitch, I rather hope not, as your experiments are as I said interesting in the main. It also seems that I'm not the only one on here that it has never happened to, not that it has never happened in the course of Motorhoming history, just that from my experience its negligible to non exsistant Phil.
C'est La Vie.

I am not flogging anything. This is a thread on the changes to my Motorhome that I have made. I don't make disguised sales pitches so actually without respect this time, why don't you just .......

I have no interest in your comments and insinuations so I suggest you don't comment further on this thread.

 

[Squiffy]

I feel I should apologise Dave, I didn't mean to make you feel uncomfortable and I have unintentionally interfered in your thread, I admit that some of the things I said specifically about selling on this site was uncalled for and I withdraw that comment unreservedly, your threads are of interest, as you say I will in future not comment adversely if at all. Phil

 

[st3v3]

Something I noticed with a 12V camera on a bench power supply was that taking the voltage up to 13-14V significantly increased the current.

 

[xsilvergs]

I feel I should apologise Dave, I didn't mean to make you feel uncomfortable and I have unintentionally interfered in your thread, I admit that some of the things I said specifically about selling on this site was uncalled for and I withdraw that comment unreservedly, your threads are of interest, as you say I will in future not comment adversely if at all. Phil

@Squiffy I wouldn't if I were you, bullying shouldn't be tolerated by admin. I rarely bother to reply these days to certain posts.

I'm off to look for a 14.2V H4 bulb as from what I've read the manufacturer has incorrectly fitted a 12V model.

 

[Squiffy]

@Squiffy I wouldn't if I were you, bullying shouldn't be tolerated by admin. I rarely bother to reply these days to certain posts.

I'm off to look for a 14.2V H4 bulb as from what I've read the manufacturer has incorrectly fitted a 12V model.

 

[wildebus]

zzzzzzzzzzzz

 

[wildebus]

Been doing some work on the Fridge/Freezer to try and make it more effective in the Motorhome (as mentioned above, the Freezer was defrosting because, I think, the rear was too cold).
The other issue I have in this area is I get a cold draft coming through from the rear compartment through the sides of the Fridge and top and through the little gap openings I have for the hinges.....
.....
To fix the Cold Drafts, put some insulation on the sides and top at the back.
View attachment 4999

So next is to keep an eye on how the freezer is going and if I need to doing anything else. I was thinking of maybe adding a slight heat source if the temp drops, but I could also use some of the leftover insulation to add a temporary insulation batt above the lower vent in the cooler months to enclose the area around the compressor and retain generated heat. (Need to remember it is fitted, mind!)

The cold draft is reduced but definately still happening at the top, so used the remaining insulation to completely block the top vent (not needed at all on a compressor fridge - they need no outside ventilation for safety, unlike Gas fridges) and also put some behind and above the bottom vent.
Will see how that goes for draft elimination now. If it still is ocurring I could pull down the insulation and block off the lower vent as well and see how that goes, but will need to remember to remove around Easter time so the cooling fans fitted to the vent will have a route for their cooling!

Something I am not that keen on with Motorhomes, Campers, etc, is the "12V" supply - as it is NOT 12V, but anything between 15V (if battery charger on on a very cold day) down to maybe below 11V (if Inverter pulling a lot of amps).
....
It is, I guess, a matter of 'you get what you pay for', so I decided to bite the bullet and go for another Blue Box from Victron.
So now to compare the 220W Victron DC-DC Converter with the generic 248W DC-DC Converter, there is a slight difference in the size ...
....
This is connected in-between the Battery Bank and the Sargent EC325, so it ensures all the standard Habitation Electrics are supplied with a fixed 12V output (I haven't put a meter on the supply at the point it enters the Sargent unit yet. It might be with voltage drops on the run from Orion to Sargent that I need to up the 12.0V to maybe 12.1V say to give 12V at distribution point?).

Today, checked the voltage on one of the 12V distribution circuit cables coming out the Sargent and there is quite a voltage drop! the various internal relays and componentry within the EC325 is certainly having an effect on the level (and interestingly the Voltage reading on the Sargent display, while not accurate as a BATTERY measurement, is actually pretty accurate as far as the SARGENT OUTPUT voltage. Is that useful? not really actually!)
I've ended up upping the Orion Voltage Out to around 12.5V to get a 12V Habitation Voltage and removed the first extra Boost/Buck fitted (for one of the Alexa Echos) and will get round to the others in the next week or so)

 

[mistericeman]

The cold draft is reduced but definately still happening at the top, so used the remaining insulation to completely block the top vent (not needed at all on a compressor fridge - they need no outside ventilation for safety, unlike Gas fridges) and also put some behind and above the bottom vent.
Will see how that goes for draft elimination now. If it still is ocurring I could pull down the insulation and block off the lower vent as well and see how that goes, but will need to remember to remove around Easter time so the cooling fans fitted to the vent will have a route for their cooling!


Today, checked the voltage on one of the 12V distribution circuit cables coming out the Sargent and there is quite a voltage drop! the various internal relays and componentry within the EC325 is certainly having an effect on the level (and interestingly the Voltage reading on the Sargent display, while not accurate as a BATTERY measurement, is actually pretty accurate as far as the SARGENT OUTPUT voltage. Is that useful? not really actually!)
I've ended up upping the Orion Voltage Out to around 12.5V to get a 12V Habitation Voltage and removed the first extra Boost/Buck fitted (for one of the Alexa Echos) and will get round to the others in the next week or so)

Have you left the gas drop out vent open?

I can block ours up when I get around to it as there is a separate one for the gas cooker (after removing the redundant gas line from the isolation manifold under the cooker)

I could have capped it with a compression fitting/brazed it shut....
As there's no chance a gas fridge is going back in on my watch.

 

[wildebus]

Have you left the gas drop out vent open?

I can block ours up when I get around to it as there is a separate one for the gas cooker (after removing the redundant gas line from the isolation manifold under the cooker)

I could have capped it with a compression fitting/brazed it shut....
As there's no chance a gas fridge is going back in on my watch.

I was wondering about the gas vent. It is slightly odd in that the drop vent looks to be part of the gas pipe entry, but this goes first to a interior cupboard and THEN externally, so there is a bit of a dog-leg which I *think* would stop a draft as such?
But a good point and what I could easily do (and will do tomorrow now) is stuff insulation into the hole to block off any air (I have not removed the pipe, just capped it and also turned off at manifold), and there is wiring also coming up the same hole so couldn't just put a cap over the whole hole anyway - but stuffing with insulation will do the trick for sure

 

[wildebus]

Dup