Connecting heater to diesel tank?

Squiffy

Squiffy

Forum Member
((actually them - got a pair); I have direct access to a Kerosene supply;))

As a matter of interest where can you by paraffin the only places I've seen it for sale in the last 30years is in model shops or specialist suppliers (Marine Chandler's) at a horrendous cost per 4.5ltr plastic can. I don't need it now but when I had my Yacht I used to use paraffin storm lamps for the lovely soft light they threw and also save on the batteries. Phil
 
trevskoda

trevskoda

Forum Member
Squiffy said:
((actually them - got a pair); I have direct access to a Kerosene supply;))

As a matter of interest where can you by paraffin the only places I've seen it for sale in the last 30years is in model shops or specialist suppliers (Marine Chandler's) at a horrendous cost per 4.5ltr plastic can. I don't need it now but when I had my Yacht I used to use paraffin storm lamps for the lovely soft light they threw and also save on the batteries. Phil
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Kerosene is 28 sec house heating oil,most garages these days sell at pump .
 

GEOFF

wildebus said:
My Heater is fitted under the drivers seat.
The fuel tanks are fitted on the repurposed Spare Wheel Carrier (I moved the Spare to a Rear Door mounted Carrier I had made).

I would think a carrier attached to the door by whatever method suitable would work quite nicely. How would you have the heater air inlet and outlets easily detachable? That would be the main complication I think?
Given the price of these units, is there much benefit in having a relocatable/portable heater? The tooling to sort out may not be much cheaper than another heater (moving the wheel wasn't a decision influenced by my fuel tank location but the cost of the new door carrier and powder coating was about the same as the cost of the heater kit)
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If mounting the heater externally I think I could simply make an enclosure for it and arrange the inlet and exhausts to exit on opposite ends of that enclosure. The reason for wanting to fit everything externally is that I do not have much space inside the vehicle. I did fit an EB heater under the drivers seat on my 2001 Ducato, but convinced myself there was too much in the way on my x250. I do have a Chinese heater that I bought and was going to convert to a "suitcase" type, but when the Chinese introduced one decided to purchase that and keep the original for another project. Geoff.
 
Squiffy

Squiffy

Forum Member
trevskoda said:
Kerosene is 28 sec house heating oil,most garages these days sell at pump .
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Maybe in NI Trev but here in Wales I've just googled it there are only Two garages that sell it at pumps and one oil supply depot in Cardiff that might sell to the public🙄

Sorry 4 stations in the whole of Wales I was talking South and West Wales.
 

wildebus

Forum Member
Squiffy said:
Maybe in NI Trev but here in Wales I've just googled it there are only Two garages that sell it at pumps and one oil supply depot in Cardiff that might sell to the public🙄

Sorry 4 stations in the whole of Wales I was talking South and West Wales.
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I was discussing this subject at one of the Wild Camping meets earlier this year - I was told that it is pretty expensive to buy Kerosene in small quantities and talking over £1 a litre.
I've never seen it at a Petrol Station I have to say (not that I have specially looked for it admittedly). I would guess NI is generally like Rural Scotland and similar bits of England and Wales - no piped gas outside of towns? (My dad didn't even have mains electricity let alone gas when he was on Rathlin - had to have his genny going for all electric (no PV solar at that time either)).
I get my Kerosene delivered by Tanker - last purchase was 840 litres.
 
Pugwash69

Pugwash69

Forum Member
Where we live, there's no mains gas supply so most houses have the oil tanks. I only recently checked prices. For 100L or less you pay about 130p a litre. Buy 1000L and it's down to 45p.
I bought a 20L tub to test mine earlier this year and I'm still using the same tub (not been out much). I suspect I'll be dropping a cup into my big tank for the next lot!
 

GEOFF

I think you can legally buy red diesel from a garage to use as heating oil. Far less expensive than kerosine. I have decided to make a fixture that clamps between the tow bar and ball coupling tocarry my suitcase heater and allow super quick removal to access rear doors. Geoff.
 
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RAW

RAW

Forum Member
Slightly out of context but, I think relevant, question.
If having separate tank for a diesel heater in Habitation, then can Red Diesel be used to run the Diesel Heater ?
 

wildebus

Forum Member
RAW said:
Slightly out of context but, I think relevant, question.
If having separate tank for a diesel heater in Habitation, then can Red Diesel be used to run the Diesel Heater ?
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Now this potentially raises an interesting question ... can you legally and legitimately put Red Diesel in a main tank and use the vehicle on the road? Answer could be yes!
You have to pay the full duty on Diesel Fuel that is used for engines that propel a vehicle (not sure if propel is the specific word, but it has the right meaning). I believe that when refuelling craft such as Canel Narrowboats, you can declare how much fuel is being bought to run the propulsion engine, and how much is for heating, even though it is all going into the same tank. And so only have to pay duty on the 'running' fuel (and just 5% VAT on the proportion for heating)
If that rule applies to a river vehicle with diesel heating, should it not also apply to a road vehicle with diesel heating? You would have to spend a long time stationary with the heater going to make it remotely worthwhile to bother having the argument, but as a theroretical point .... :unsure: :whistle: :sneaky: :sleep: :p
 
RAW

RAW

Forum Member
wildebus said:
Now this potentially raises an interesting question ... can you legally and legitimately put Red Diesel in a main tank and use the vehicle on the road? Answer could be yes!
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Not got a picture, however local garage, states on the Red Diesel pump something to the affect of:
"It is illegal to use Red Diesel in Road Vehicles and anyone found doing so will be prosecuted"
When I next go I will take a Picture and put it up here.
I would "think" that if you fill a dedicated Tank for heating with Red Diesel then you would not fall foul of the Law
There is more on the Legal Aspect of Red Diesel Here and an abstract of such:

You may use red diesel in your vehicle if it is used on public roads only when moving between different areas of land occupied by the same person, for purposes relating to agriculture, horticulture or forestry, as long as this does not involve travelling on public roads for more than 1.5 kilometres.12 Mar 2019
 

wildebus

Forum Member
RAW said:
Not got a picture, however local garage, states on the Red Diesel pump something to the affect of:
"It is illegal to use Red Diesel in Road Vehicles and anyone found doing so will be prosecuted"
When I next go I will take a Picture and put it up here.
I would "think" that if you fill a dedicated Tank for heating with Red Diesel then you would not fall foul of the Law
There is more on the Legal Aspect of Red Diesel Here and an abstract of such:

You may use red diesel in your vehicle if it is used on public roads only when moving between different areas of land occupied by the same person, for purposes relating to agriculture, horticulture or forestry, as long as this does not involve travelling on public roads for more than 1.5 kilometres.12 Mar 2019
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There is absolutely no reason why you cannot fill a heater tank with Red Diesel, same as filling it with Kerosene or Paraffin.

When they say "use Red Diesel in Roads Vehicles" it does not mean for ANY purpose!
 
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Pugwash69

Pugwash69

Forum Member
You should find the use of red diesel etc are covered by section 5 of this document:
www.gov.uk

Using rebated fuels in vehicles and machines (Excise Notice 75)

Find out when you can use rebated diesel, biodiesel or kerosene in vehicles and other machinery.
www.gov.uk www.gov.uk

5.1 Fuel you can use for separate machinery on your vehicle
You do not have to use fully duty paid fuel for your separate machinery as long as it has its own fuel supply and auxiliary engine separate from the vehicle’s fuel supply and engine.
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Have a good read of the 5.2 and 5.3 as it also answers questions asked in this thread.
 
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GEOFF

The boat arrangement is something that was agreed by our HMRC, but the EU hate it and even with our leaving (if we ever do) the EU are still trying to stop it. There is absolutely NO reason that you cannot use a heater on RD, but that must be from its own separate fuel tank. Geoff.
 

wildebus

Forum Member
If you do have a seperate tank for the heater, it is very likely better to use Kerosene rather than Red Diesel. It burns cleaner and you will get less choking up of the burner. This is especially true of the Cheap Chinese Jobbies but still applies to the branded expensive ones.
 

wildebus

Forum Member
This is the location of my Heater Fuel Tank... Used to hold the spare wheel, and just drops down to let me refill the tanks

Fuel Station on Carrier by David, on Flickr

Then raises up out the way

Fuel Station Raised by David, on Flickr

I've actually got a pair of those 5L tanks with an interconnecting hose at the bottom between the two, so they automatically work as what is known as Communicating Vessels. That way only one needs to be connected to the fuel pump.
 
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