Charcoal/wood burners for heating

[whitevanwoman]

Definitions.


A troll is someone who posts a deliberately provocative message with the intention of causing maximum disruption and argument.


Baiting is to post a message on the forum, with the intent of provoking an angry response or argument over a topic the "troll" often has no real interest in, and finds humour, or entertainment in reactions.



Admin's definitions, found here : http://www.wildcamping.co.uk/forums/community-news/20843-penalty-point-system-please-read.html

 

[Aladdinsane]

Definitions.


A troll is someone who posts a deliberately provocative message with the intention of causing maximum disruption and argument.


Baiting is to post a message on the forum, with the intent of provoking an angry response or argument over a topic the "troll" often has no real interest in, and finds humour, or entertainment in reactions.



Admin's definitions, found here : http://www.wildcamping.co.uk/forums/community-news/20843-penalty-point-system-please-read.html

Does pointing out an incorrect statement on the grounds of safety make me a troll??? I think not.
You are the person who has gone off topic in this thread not me.

 

[Aladdinsane]

My narrowboat stove has a flue and chimney with a combined height of less than half that!
It is very efficient and every 4 years is subject to a very stricy Boat Safety Certificate examination; we have CO detectors fitted and they have never been activated, so it would seem to me that you are worrying people un-necessarily by making statements like this.

As said in the post, it is a recommended measurement.

 

[Tony Lee]

Does semantics really matter?

Yes, it certainly does. Any claim that any particular system or procedure is free of risk is just plain silly.

Keeping it in the context of this thread, it should be known that any heater suitable - meaning with acceptable risk parameters- for use in a normal home is not automatically suitable for use in a small RV. Fresh air availability, volume of living area, rate of exchange of the air with fresh air, proximity of hot surfaces to furniture, children or infants living in the RV etc are all factors that need to be taken into account.

Also almost any combustion process involving fuels commonly available has the potential to produce not only Carbon Monoxide, but other poisonous gases as well.

YES, when new and properly installed and with clean flues etc etc, they may well be OK, but give it a few years or inexpert installation or a partially blocked flue, and that heater might well be a death trap.

every 4 years is subject to a very stricy Boat Safety Certificate examination;

but DIY heaters in RVs are not, are they.

As for the assertion by a couple of contributors in this topic that ALL concerned are fully aware of all the ramifications of whatever decision they made and the rest of us should just butt out and leave the thread in peace -

Yet again, contributors have made it very clear on this thread that those people who have chosen multi fuel stoves as their form of heating are fully aware of the dangers and repeated warnings about this on virtually every thread on this subject are both unnnecessary, patronising and, to be honest, an insult to the intelligence of those who take the effort to post, especailly when it is a single post mid thread without any other useful contribution to the original question.

- truly amazing given that all through any forum like this one is any amount of advice from posters that ranges from dangerous to patently stupid and if it weren't for posters like Aladdinsane making sensible and accurate contributions to the discussion for no other motive but to ensure that gullible or uninformed people aren't misled, then they wouldn't be fulfilling their duty of care responsibilities to their fellow man.

Problem is that anyone can come on here making all sorts of statements using terminology that might lead others to think they know what they are talking about and if it wasn't for a few that do have some idea stepping in and correcting poor advice, more than a few could end up putting themselves and others in danger. If that makes us trolls, then so be it.

 

[edina]

if it wasn't for a few that do have some idea stepping in and correcting poor advice, more than a few could end up putting themselves and others in danger. If that makes us trolls, then so be it.

I think this highlights the problem that is always going to be present on any forum; everyone thinks they know more than most of the other posters. This is why any advice given should be checked with professionals in that field before implementing it.

It is highlighted most by the posts criticising other drivers; the poster assumes that they can criticise because they are the best driver in the world.

THEY ARE NOT --- I AM.

 

[n brown]

when you've fitted your 4.5 metre flue on your boat,can i come and see it please,i desperately need a laugh

 

[edina]

I was going to say I could put a sail on it, but I think someone might point out that it could be danngerous.lol

 

[Aladdinsane]

Simple Google search will give you the recommended flue length (it's not regulated)


Quote"I don't think it is our job to protect dummies from themselves, though, beyond giving a few bits of advice"
Even if it's incorrect?

 

[mark61]

So fitting and using a wood burner correctly is safe, fitting and using one like a plonker is potentially dangerous. So this differs from many other task how exactly?

God forbid anyone service their van themselves, change their own brakes! I have it on good authority some people fill up their own petrol tank. What ever next.

 

[n brown]

trouble is i think a lot of regulations are written by people who don't necessarily have any practical experience of their subject,but having skimmed through the books feel they know what is best,like childless social workers given control over families,unmarried marriage guidance counsellors,counsellors who've never experienced tragedy giving advice to grieving survivors,architects telling me how to make impossible things in wood etc etc.patronising knowalls mostly with an overblown sense of their own worth.

completely by the by,one of the things i liked about prtugal when i first went there was the lack of fencing or warning signs on any of the cliffs or blowholes.presumably the authorities felt it was your responsibility to notice the drop and act accordingly !

 

[sean rua]

Aye, the burning question.:egg:

Apparently, incomplete combustion is an even bigger danger.

Personally, I can't understand why Phil doesn't close this website down altogether. The idea was good and well-intentioned, but the premise was probably impossible and the outcome and undesired effect must be viewed as counter-productive.

Alright, I'm only here five minutes, but it seems to me that wild-camping and motorhoming are activities that are irreconcilable; one tends to preclude the other.

When I first came on this forum, folk were innocently enquiring would they be gassed in their beds etc on the Continent.
Rightly or wrongly, well-established forumites made fun and dismissed the very idea: all sorts of pseudo-science and facts and figures ( no doubt mostly from the Daily Mail and/or Google) were bandied about.
Anyway, the general consensus was that these people were silly to worry about getting gassed as 'twas impossible and any stories about it happening were just scare-mongering exaggerations that were not true.

OK, have we all got that? Let's go with the flow.

Months later, there was an enquiry about gas heaters and now wood-burners on board motor-homes. This time round, it would appear that the scriptures tell us that these yokes are terribly dangerous, with the main danger, notwithstanding flying chunks of shrapnel from explosions, being the risk of campers gassing themselves and their families.

It seems therefore that campers pose a bigger danger to themselves than anything else in the world, including the professional criminal gangs mentioned in the scare-mongering stories.

For this reason, I hereby call on Phil to close down the forum, with immediate effect, as the risk of desperados using this platform to promote dangerous risks to health and safety is just too great. They may tell us that they're peaceful but, hell, us good ol' boys can't afford to take the chance. :danger:

Lock Down Now, before it's too late!

Nathan Carter Wagon Wheel - YouTube


sean rua.

 

[jonkil]

trouble is i think a lot of regulations are written by people who don't necessarily have any practical experience of their subject,but having skimmed through the books feel they know what is best,like childless social workers given control over families,unmarried marriage guidance counsellors,counsellors who've never experienced tragedy giving advice to grieving survivors,architects telling me how to make impossible things in wood etc etc.patronising knowalls mostly with an overblown sense of their own worth.

completely by the by,one of the things i liked about prtugal when i first went there was the lack of fencing or warning signs on any of the cliffs or blowholes.presumably the authorities felt it was your responsibility to notice the drop and act accordingly !

That indeed is 100% correct, "those who can do, those who can't teach".
We once quoted for a job to supply 1000 items machined from solid 6063 aluminium billet. We told the designer (Local authority) that we believed the material was not fit for purpose. He over-ruled our concerns and ordered the items to be made to his spec. We got a legal purchase order signed by his boss and himself and we duly fulfilled the order and drew down payment of almost 100K. The upshot? The machined items began to fail and we could then point out that we drew their attention to the fact and had the purchase order to back it up. The said items were sent for recycled scrap and we then manufactured them to our spec without issue and drew down payment of over 100K again...... all taxpayers money.
Imagine that dumbskull working in the private sector, he would last less than a week.
The moral of the story, The asshole who designed them hadn't a clue.... in a job out of college and never worked a day in his life.... this stays true across the board.

 

[sparrks]

completely by the by,one of the things i liked about prtugal when i first went there was the lack of fencing or warning signs on any of the cliffs or blowholes.presumably the authorities felt it was your responsibility to notice the drop and act accordingly !

Very different places I know, but traveling along the north coast of Cornwall several years ago I noticed a considerable difference in the coast path once I'd past into Devon. Cornwall had very few signs and fences but in Devon they were in abundance. Could you imagine having H&S being let loose in the Highlands of Scotland. Seem to recall a few years back, a London (H&S) company had yellow warning signs put up on Rannoch moor warning that it had not been assesed for Health & Safety.


Sometimes it's knowing the basics and not the rest, that is the problem - a little knowledge can be dangerous.

 

[n brown]

well i'm afraid i had no idea LIFE was going to be so complicated and dangerous when i first joined. after being violently expelled from my mother, i should have realised, but maybe i'm a bit dense.if it gets any worse,and the people in control keep forgetting to ensure my safety,i may top myself to avoid any further risk,that'll show them

 

[Tony Lee]

Facts about Carbon Monoxide.

Those with lots of assurances could benefit from doing a bit of research on the subject, because unlike driving over kerbs into the ocean, or falling into water or any of the smokescreen examples raised in order to disguise the dangers, CO is colourless, odourless and is present whenever carbon-based fuel is burnt. It is a cumulative poison at low doses and its effects are not easily reversable even by advanced medical intervention. Long term low dosage produces impairements that are not immediately obvious, especially in children.

Worth reading if only to be able to offer intelligent debate next time the subject comes up.
Most of the links are clickable and some of the pertinent points are picked out in read to save time.

Carbon Monoxide Facts | Quick Fact Sheet
Carbon Monoxide Facts | Quick Fact Sheet - United States
Quick Fact Sheet. THE HIDDEN DANGER OF CARBON MONOXIDE POISONING. Headache; Dizziness; Irritability; Confusion/Memory loss; Disorientation ...


The facts on carbon monoxide poisoning
The facts on carbon monoxide poisoning
Carbon monoxide (CO) is a gas that is produced when fuel—gasoline, propane, natural gas, oil, wood, or coal—is burned. CO is extremely dangerous to people ...


Carbon Monoxide
Carbon Monoxide
Carbon Monoxide is highly dangerous. You can't see it or smell it. In fact it is often called "the silent killer". You can protect your home from the dangers of this ...


CDC - Carbon Monoxide Poisoning - Frequently Asked Questions
CDC - Carbon Monoxide Poisoning - Frequently Asked Questions
by CM Poisoning - Related articles
Oct 10, 2012 – What is carbon monoxide? Carbon monoxide, or CO, is an odorless, colorless gas that can cause sudden illness and death.
[PDF]


A Factsheet on the Dangers of Carbon Monoxide - City of National City
www.nationalcityca.gov/Modules/ShowDocument.aspx?documentid...
File Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat - Quick View
ach year in America, unintentional carbon monoxide (CO) poisoning claims more than. 500 lives and sends another 15,200 people to hospital emergency rooms ...


Carbon monoxide - National Fire Protection Association
NFPA...
Vehicles or generators running in an attached garage can also produce dangerous levels of carbon monoxide. Facts & figures. The dangers of CO exposure ...


Carbon Monoxide Safety in NJ | Buy a Carbon Monoxide Detector
Carbon Monoxide Safety in NJ | Buy a Carbon Monoxide Detector - United States
co detector Carbon monoxide is a lot like an elusive criminal -- it's highly dangerous and you can't see or smell it. In fact, it's often called "the silent killer." ...


The Dangers of Carbon Monoxide : Silent Shadow
The Dangers of Carbon Monoxide : Silent Shadow
One of the dangers of carbon monoxide poisoning is death. A large enough dose of this odourless, colourless and tasteless gas can kill within minutes. In fact ...


Carbon Monoxide Facts - Quick Tips #236 - Grainger Industrial ...
Carbon Monoxide Facts - Quick Tips #236 - Grainger Industrial Supply - Grainger Industrial Supply
High levels of carbon monoxide can kill in minutes. Learn the signs of exposure and how to protect yourself in Quick Tips #236: Carbon Monoxide Facts. ... crucial because of the common sources of carbon monoxide and its inherent dangers.


MDCH - Carbon Monoxide
http://www.wildcamping.co.uk/forums...v/.../0,4612,7-132-54783_54784_54787---,00.ht...
You need to protect yourself and your family from the dangers of carbon monoxide given off by camping and other specialized equipment. The following fact ...


Carbon Monoxide - Service Details
The official Isle of Wight website...
Question: Key Facts of dangers of Carbon Monoxide. Answer: • Everyone using a fuel burning appliance is at risk from carbon monoxide poisoning. • Carbon ...


Carbon Monoxide - What is Carbon Monoxide (CO)?
Carbon Monoxide - What is Carbon Monoxide (CO)?
A concentration of as little as 0.04% (400 parts per million) carbon monoxide in the air can be fatal. The gas is especially dangerous because it is not easily ...


Dangers of Carbon Monoxide, Prevent Posioning in Children ...
Dangers of Carbon Monoxide, Prevent Posioning in Children - Children's Hospital Colorado-Denver Area, Rocky Mountain Region
The Dangers of Carbon Monoxide Poisoning for Children ... information about the law, how to choose a CO alarm as well as fact sheet can be found at www.

 

[n brown]

had a mate who burnt cork by forcing the draught on the fire downwards and created enough methane to run his lorry.i am told this was common technology during the war. the gas was kept in bags and strapped to the roof.we'll be doing that again soon!

 

[Deadsfo]

The recent cases of tent campers bringing into their tents the nearly expired but still warm BBQ to create a bit of heat with tragic results is a reminder of the dangers.
If fitted right with all the precautions previously mentioned no problem,I dont think they would go down well on crowded campsites ,with the smoke belting out,I guess they really are for wild camping ,or in a forested area with the forest fire problems

 

[splitty67]

Enough of this,I've decided to comply with the government's new initiative,wouldhttp://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/health/government-hoping-you-die-soon-2012101845621 anyone care to join me?

 

[splitty67]

Government hoping you die soon

 

[sean rua]

I have to admit that I don't understand what's going on with Mr99g.

From what I could gather, he was somebody ( I couldn't work out who) that got banned and resurrected hiomself with this moniker.

For what it's worth, I thought he was a great poster, and, frankly, I'm sorry to see him go.:sad:

The problem with social media is that we don't really know who is who.

Anyway, maybe what I say doesn't count for fa, especially, when we remember that I was one who didn't want Northener, prat as he was, to be banned.

On the other hand, ALF HUCKER, was a pillock from day one, but i guess even his bnp/ukip supporters realised that.

As usual, I'm, pi ssed right up, and after a funeral, am now going out on the town.

Good luck, Mr 99g, and I'm sure we'll bump into each other on the drom ( CO permitting).:have fun::goodluck:

sean rua.


4) Lafferty's Wake SOUNDTRACK - I'm A Rambler, I'm A Gambler - YouTube