harrow
Forum Member
Or tap into a local street light
Or tap into a local street light
Byronic
And if caught, just hope they stick you in pokey for the winter,
keep warm at the taxpayers expense, win win. Or more likely
they'll just give you a fine, and it's lose lose.
In France some of the travelling community wil connect to the nearest
street lamp supply. They even leave the cables ready for following
members of the fraternity when they turn up. I know because
I was even offered a "hook up" once!
hairydog
Wildebus' really useful graphs seem to suggest that his 400W of solar panels produce 100 watt hours per hour in Summer, 10 watt hours per hour in Winter.
Multiply those figures by 24 to get the per day figure, then divide by four hundred to get the "sun hours per day" figure. Or just multiply by 0.06 for ease of maths.
That gives 6 hours output in the best month, 0.6 hours output in the worst. That's slightly better than I'd expect (5) in June, rather less good than I'd expect in December, but he has mentioned being in some shade.
Is Wildebus mostly a creature of the South of the UK? That might explain the 20% better than expected Summer figures
Multiply those figures by 24 to get the per day figure, then divide by four hundred to get the "sun hours per day" figure. Or just multiply by 0.06 for ease of maths.
That gives 6 hours output in the best month, 0.6 hours output in the worst. That's slightly better than I'd expect (5) in June, rather less good than I'd expect in December, but he has mentioned being in some shade.
Is Wildebus mostly a creature of the South of the UK? That might explain the 20% better than expected Summer figures
Deleted member 1540
I'll say this very, very quietly ... but I'm going to fit an Efoy device later in the year.
Now I am full-timing, never using campsites and hating the noise and inconvenience of a generator, this is the right answer for me.
Now I am full-timing, never using campsites and hating the noise and inconvenience of a generator, this is the right answer for me.
trevskoda
Forum Member
To expensive for me so i will efoy ed it at all costs.
wildebus
Forum Member
I am north of the Border in fact.
My winter numbers are very poor but that is due to the significant shade I suffer most of the day in the Winter. The house causes shade from the east until gone midday; then a large tree takes over the role of stealing my sun in the afternoon (not saying I get nothing at all, but it is certainly noticable)
When I park on another part of the driveway it makes a tremendous difference.
Being in the North in summertime also provides a noticably longer 'solar day' - right now that is around 9.5 Hours where I can harvest at least 25% at the start of the day and 25% at the end (9:30AM is the real kick-off when shade is cleared and the harvesting plummets at around 7:00PM (but a few watts still come in until gone 9:00PM).
Another Factor - but I suspect small when comparing North and South is heat. it is pretty sunny today but not massively warm and almost always windy, so that implies that my panels will be a little cooler then typical and so ever so slightly more efficient (I wouldn't like to put a figure on how much though!)
Asterix
Ok, Graph as promised:
but first ....
1) This is not a scientific analysis (I don't drive around in a Laboratory!) and should be read more as a Comparision between different months and as an example of a single install.
2) I park just north of a 3-storey house so the impact of a low sun angle is exacerbated by that building. If I were to park just 5 feet further north-east, my harvesting increases noticably - even in the Summer, but more so in Winter (confirmed by occasional testing) - so IMO the difference shown between Winter and Summer is more extreme than it has to be
3) The Length of Day is determined by the time the Controller spends in either Bulk or Absorption Mode (it doesn't really harvest in Float Mode and definately not when Off!)
Plus - The Victron MPPT Controller is very efficient and attempts to harvest at first light and this is much earlier than real energy harvesting will occur.
This means the number of hours of Light/Day is a bit exaggerated really. For example, the average daylight hours in December, the shortest month is still 7.34Hrs! and in June, the longest month, it was 17.41Hrs. As a specific example, yesterday the Solar Controller turned on at 04:47 and turned off at 21:56 - but actual proper harvesting (over 5% of capacity) didn't start until 07:30 and stopped at around 20:30 - A pretty big difference.
SolarChart by David, on Flickr
So for the 10 months shown, difference between Winter and Summer is at a factor of 10 (this is more extreme then reality for reasons explained above).
Bearing in mind the elongated daylight times and the parking location pull the numbers down significantly, I harvest around 25%/Hr of the nominal maximum capacity of my array in the summer but just 2.5% in Winter.
My feeling is that those numbers are more likely to be 45% Summer, 8% Winter with true harvesting hours and optimized parking, so if that is true, 8% in winter will do as a 'tickover' kind of level, but to really USE your camper, either EHU or a Split-Charge (or Alternator) will need to be in place I would say.
On my 400W Array, I currently tend to average around 1Kw/Day when I am not doing much in it, and around 2.2Kw/Day when the Controller doesn't hit float mode for very long.
Thanks for that Wildebus,I like graphs☺
I'm on the south coast and will be mostly down this way and south Wales over winter, after reading thru the thread and seeing you're over the border I can only think your figures will be worst case for me down here.
I've got a genny (hope the swearword software doesn't beep that out) so it may be a case of using that to top up. I'll see what 500 watts does this year and if needs be I can throw another lot up next year.
Asterix
How very dare you mentioning that on a solar thread! ?
If I ever won the lotto I'd get one in a heartbeat,but as I don't buy lotto its solar for me.
hairydog
Thinking about it some more, I've realised that as your figures only cover less than a year, the June numbers would be rather better than you'd expect, because June was rather sunnier than the usual sort of a June.
I take your point about longer summer days in the North, but that's seriously outweighed by lower sun angles all year.
hairydog
The noise level is right, the installation cost is OK, but the running cost is ridiculous. You may as well burn fivers as a heat source - and they're more easily available.
OK, I exaggerate slightly, but not much. What do you calculate the per-KW cost of running an efoy is?
Deleted member 1540
For me the running cost is not hugely important.
I know from a number of winters that I have spent in the 'van that it will not be used that much, mostly because I head south. As mentioned I now full-time so my energy costs are much reduced consequently the fuel cost doesn't matter that much.
It's the ability to generate power with no noise that is very important to me, and the relatively green aspects are important too.
I know from a number of winters that I have spent in the 'van that it will not be used that much, mostly because I head south. As mentioned I now full-time so my energy costs are much reduced consequently the fuel cost doesn't matter that much.
It's the ability to generate power with no noise that is very important to me, and the relatively green aspects are important too.
wildebus
Forum Member
The efoy looks a very nice system but for myself I don't think I could bring myself to use that due to the running cost of the fuel.
In summer I am confident my largish Solar + Battery system will provide everything I need power wise, using it for both refrigeration and cooking.
I designed my setup to use for primarily summer and some 3-season camping, and would think it would be ok for that still.
However in Winter, I can't see an all-electric setup being able to cope with a Wild Camping scenario if you were settled in one spot for say 3 or more days unless you had maybe 500Ah of USABLE battery power (I have 220Ah).
Should I be in that kind of situation, I will be fine for Fridge and the like for an extended period, but I would be using my little gas cartridge burner that I carry for outside use, than the Induction Hob for cooking/tea making.
Heating wise, diesel heater whenever I get round to installing it plus Electric Blanket just fitted this afternoon to try out potentially this weekend, but those gas burners put out a lot of heat anyway as a by-product, so using one of those winter could kill two birds with one stone (and talking of killing birds, window cracked open and roof fan on when in use of course!)
In summer I am confident my largish Solar + Battery system will provide everything I need power wise, using it for both refrigeration and cooking.
I designed my setup to use for primarily summer and some 3-season camping, and would think it would be ok for that still.
However in Winter, I can't see an all-electric setup being able to cope with a Wild Camping scenario if you were settled in one spot for say 3 or more days unless you had maybe 500Ah of USABLE battery power (I have 220Ah).
Should I be in that kind of situation, I will be fine for Fridge and the like for an extended period, but I would be using my little gas cartridge burner that I carry for outside use, than the Induction Hob for cooking/tea making.
Heating wise, diesel heater whenever I get round to installing it plus Electric Blanket just fitted this afternoon to try out potentially this weekend, but those gas burners put out a lot of heat anyway as a by-product, so using one of those winter could kill two birds with one stone (and talking of killing birds, window cracked open and roof fan on when in use of course!)
delicagirl
what is efoy ? my computer cant seem to find it .... thanks
Nabsim
Forum Member
Byronic
A mid range fuel cell would only supply 100W - !50W/Hr. of energy,
roughly the output energy of a 200-300W solar system running in the summer
months for a similar number of hours.
In a UK winter the fuel cell will of course supply the same energy, and charge
the batteries for items requiring low power demands LED lights and TV computer eg. Whereas the
solar panel output will be little better than neglible. But the large energy consumer
is likely to be winter space heating and for this you'd need a large fuel cell charging a
large capacity battery bank. Not always practical in a motorhome due to weight considerations
So for space heating it usually means gas or diesel fired heaters, or a petrol/diesel generator
or woodburner.
Any 'green' environmental benefits attributable to a fuel cell @ 100W-150W will be fairly
marginal when weighed against the minimum +1kW output of the fossil fuelled generator
or gas/diesel space heater that would be required. Still to some silence is golden and that
combined with avoiding a possible smack in the face for running a noisy generator, the
high costs associated with running a fuel cell might be a price well worth paying
roughly the output energy of a 200-300W solar system running in the summer
months for a similar number of hours.
In a UK winter the fuel cell will of course supply the same energy, and charge
the batteries for items requiring low power demands LED lights and TV computer eg. Whereas the
solar panel output will be little better than neglible. But the large energy consumer
is likely to be winter space heating and for this you'd need a large fuel cell charging a
large capacity battery bank. Not always practical in a motorhome due to weight considerations
So for space heating it usually means gas or diesel fired heaters, or a petrol/diesel generator
or woodburner.
Any 'green' environmental benefits attributable to a fuel cell @ 100W-150W will be fairly
marginal when weighed against the minimum +1kW output of the fossil fuelled generator
or gas/diesel space heater that would be required. Still to some silence is golden and that
combined with avoiding a possible smack in the face for running a noisy generator, the
high costs associated with running a fuel cell might be a price well worth paying
hairydog
I anticipate a fuel cell powered by LPG suitable for topping up EV batteries will come on the market.
It would be ideal on a motorhome, but the larger EV market may bring the price down from the insane efoy levels.
It would be ideal on a motorhome, but the larger EV market may bring the price down from the insane efoy levels.
Looser cruiser
The efoy seems to draw some controversy over costs and running costs sure it’s not for everybody but if you can get over that fact and get you’re head around the sheer convince of having a clean 24 hour noise free source of energy then it’s a great wee piece of kit I’ve been using mine since jan this year and wouldn’t be without it now remember it’s not running all the time and very little use in summer months I’ve found that if I take it off the automatic settings installed and use manually when needed the fuel consumption is nominal think I’ve used about £30 of fuel and most of that running it when testing and getting used too it works well for me I’ve probably got enough fuel to last 2 or three years stored as most of cost of fuel is made up on delivery say you buy 1 tub you pay dangerous substance delivery charge but if you buy six you only pay this charge once
Deleted member 1540
Any 'green' environmental benefits attributable to a fuel cell @ 100W-150W will be fairly
marginal when weighed against the minimum +1kW output of the fossil fuelled generator
or gas/diesel space heater that would be required. Still to some silence is golden and that
combined with avoiding a possible smack in the face for running a noisy generator, the
high costs associated with running a fuel cell might be a price well worth paying
My point was that it's greener using an Efoy than running a generator ...
Byronic
Will not find me disputing that well known fact. And solar panels out greens them all.
Last edited by a moderator: