When is a bus not a bus? My attempt to change a Vario's tax class.

[Galileo]

The Background
Way back in November 2019 I bought a Vario 614D 24 seater from a coach company. The intention being to join others in converting it into a motorhome for less than the eye watering prices of the ready built ones, plus it seemed like a fun project. One personal drama leads to another (redundancy, house roof repair plus idiot builder plus heavy rain equals no house) and I don't start the work until the end of February 2020 and I merrily rip out the interior and start on the build, insulating the roof.

Middle Bit
March comes around and I'm looking at water tank placement when suddenly the entire world has a personal drama and we start counting to 20 when washing hands and looking at people coughing with narrowed eyes. Lockdown happens, can't order anything, can't drive to where the bus is parked anyway. Coming to the end of the summer and I've decided to move up (very) North, so me and my chattels including the ex-bus park up in a new home.

The End Bit
Spring is around the corner and it's time to get started again, need to get an MOT for the ex-bus as it expired a few months ago, but it's an insulated 4.2t van so it will need a DVSA HGV test. There's one testing station that gets a DVSA person once a month, so I book it in, "as a PSV?" says the ATF people, no, as a Private HGV please. testing day arrived and the examiner said no, he has it down as a PSV and it's 24 seats short of a bus, "can you test as presented?" I ask, he says no. The ATF people chase their £159 invoice, I never even made it past the yard, "oh come on, seriously?"

TL;DR
I ring the DVLA and ask about getting the class changed, sure, they said, "send in a V70 with a valid MOT", but I don't have an MOT and tried but was refused I respond, "tricky", they say, "call the DVSA". So I call the DVSA, very helpful chap, confirms that I can only book in a PSV for a test, and that it was last tested as a PSV, so I explain what happened and how I need to change the class. "Tricky" he says, "You are in a bit of a loop I can see." His advice is that I just crack on and get it converted and get a class 4, which is solid advice, but it has to be parked out on the road. Has anyone else been caught in this trap, and if so, what did you do?

 

[wildebus]

The Background
Way back in November 2019 I bought a Vario 614D 24 seater from a coach company. The intention being to join others in converting it into a motorhome for less than the eye watering prices of the ready built ones, plus it seemed like a fun project. One personal drama leads to another (redundancy, house roof repair plus idiot builder plus heavy rain equals no house) and I don't start the work until the end of February 2020 and I merrily rip out the interior and start on the build, insulating the roof.

Middle Bit
March comes around and I'm looking at water tank placement when suddenly the entire world has a personal drama and we start counting to 20 when washing hands and looking at people coughing with narrowed eyes. Lockdown happens, can't order anything, can't drive to where the bus is parked anyway. Coming to the end of the summer and I've decided to move up (very) North, so me and my chattels including the ex-bus park up in a new home.

The End Bit
Spring is around the corner and it's time to get started again, need to get an MOT for the ex-bus as it expired a few months ago, but it's an insulated 4.2t van so it will need a DVSA HGV test. There's one testing station that gets a DVSA person once a month, so I book it in, "as a PSV?" says the ATF people, no, as a Private HGV please. testing day arrived and the examiner said no, he has it down as a PSV and it's 24 seats short of a bus, "can you test as presented?" I ask, he says no. The ATF people chase their £159 invoice, I never even made it past the yard, "oh come on, seriously?"

TL;DR
I ring the DVLA and ask about getting the class changed, sure, they said, "send in a V70 with a valid MOT", but I don't have an MOT and tried but was refused I respond, "tricky", they say, "call the DVSA". So I call the DVSA, very helpful chap, confirms that I can only book in a PSV for a test, and that it was last tested as a PSV, so I explain what happened and how I need to change the class. "Tricky" he says, "You are in a bit of a loop I can see." His advice is that I just crack on and get it converted and get a class 4, which is solid advice, but it has to be parked out on the road. Has anyone else been caught in this trap, and if so, what did you do?

I had a similar situation with my ex-Minibus which had both PSV and MOT certs at various times.
I changed it from PSV to a Van/Windows and changed from PLG to PHGV to save on the road tax before ultimately reclassifying as a Motor Caravan.
Then when MOT was due (and conversion not completed), I found I could not MOT as it was a van over 3.5t. I couldn't get an HGV test from the DVSA as had no HGV plate.
When I called DVSA for advise I found the people I spoke to the most incompetent and unhelpful ever! (DVLA I find very good in contrast).
In the end I added the bits needed for the van to appear internally like a MotorCaravan (e.g. Sink and Hob - bed was already in) and took it to local MOT place and asked them if they would MOT as a class 4. they looked at it and said no problem.

I was lucky I guess in that I was close enough to the completed conversion when the MOT was due, I could literally chuck in the sink etc in a few hours (didn't connect up, just put in) so it looked right.
Can you make it look "motor caravanish" enough for an MOT inspector to look and nod his head? Or can you put any seats back in? (don't think you need 24? anything over 9 would make it a Minibus and PSV eligiable - but then you have all the PSV checks required to deal with )

 

[SquirrellCook]

You have to break the law! sorry.
Really you should have asked before touching your coach/bus
These are the best vehicles to convert for many reason I won't go into now.
MOT You have to meet the minimum requirements to be considered a motorhome. Easy costs about £300 and will be completely unusable as a motorhome. If mechanically sound you'll get your bit of paper.
Once you start ripping things out you are in danger of becoming an HGV without a plating certificate. Very bad news as you have a Passenger vehicle.
My MOT is out now on my Coach, but I haven't done enough of the build to get it MOT'd again
So I think your only solution is to do a fake conversion. Make sure no bus/coach stuff is left inside.

 

[SquirrellCook]

One thing to add, if you change the tax class you become a private HGV, that it could never be. So technically illegal even though the DVLA did it.
As a coach/bus you are only legally taxed if carrying fair paying passengers. So in many cases coaches/busses are running around untaxed. No one seems to care as long as the duty is paid. It's a little more tax than Private HGV, but not much and less hassle. One day I hope the rules change so that you could be Class M1 with an overweight exemption. (taxation class Motorhome) BTW body type should remain Bus/Coach.

 

[Galileo]

Thanks both, you've confirmed my fears that between the the DVLA and DVSA ("Same bloody building, doesn't mean that they talk" said the nice tester) that I'm in MOT no-man's land and just need to get it looking like a motor caravan enough for a class 4. When that's done, you reckon PHGV is the right class to go for straight after? There's an odd thing about the tax, I'm still paying it, they normally cancel it when the MOT runs out. So interesting about if it's even actually legally taxed, which I guess as a bus with no seats, it's not. Luckily for me there is a little chance of any repercussions due to my location, but I still want to be legal.

If it wasn't for Covid19 I'd be happily on target and long finished, whilst I'm extremly grateful not to have been stricken and have sympathy for those it has, it's put so many things on hold and ruined so many of my plans for a year.

 

[Tucker]

Hi can you help i have Mercedes sprinter mwb , do you need to put 2 windows on same side? Or can I have a window on each side?thanks

 

[Galileo]

You would probably be better off starting a new thread rather than tacking on the end of one that is not relevant to your question.

 

[Tucker]

Sorry a just joined

 

[Galileo]

Hope you don't think that was snippy, just that you'll potentially miss out on getting a reply!

 

[SquirrellCook]

Just forget about anything you may have read, or seen on any dodgy video clip.

Visit who you intend to use to MOT it as a Motorhome. Ask what are the minimum requirements for them to MOT it as a Motorhome.
If they ask for it to be fully finished look for someone else. The requirements are very basic, I don't think you even need windows.
Having a Motorhome MOT does not make it a Motorhome, but it's a good step on the way.