Ventilation?

[Salmo]

I'm currently having a new T30 converted, but without fixed cooking facilities. It is likely we will at times cook on a portable gas cooker in the van when the weather is bad. I did ask the converter if there was any requirement for ventilation but was told, it would not be needed. I am concerned about CO2 emissions. I know there have been recent fatalities on canal boats caused by CO2. Anyone got any thoughts on this? I will be fitting a monitor just to be extra cautious.

 

[kimbowbill]

i'm no expert but i thought any form of gas useage inside a van would need ventilation unless you have the door open all the time,

 

[Deleted member 36]

I agree, you would need some kind of ventilation, certainly while cooking.

 

[Deleted member 951]

There are at least 10 deaths a year caused by indoor cooking with camp stoves. You must have a good air flow eg. an open window, also make sure that your cooker has a flame failure device fitted to prevent a build up of gas if the flame blows out.

Rob

 

[Deleted member 36]

Surely, the converter must have advised at least to have a window or roof vent open at all times while cooking. If not I would not respect his opinions/advice.
I am not sure if a roof vent would suffice as I would think the gases would not vent upwards.
Get expert advice!

 

[ellisboy]

Are you having any opening windows/ roof windows ? It's important to have at least one as burning gas produces vast amounts of water which = condensation,in an un vented van this will be very bad.I'm using a portable stove at the moment in my van ,as it's still under construction.I have 3roof windows and 4 windows.Usually open the nearest roof vent and maybe a window if it's wet.You don't want condensation if you can help it ! :cheers: Stephen.

 

[sloanie]

Im no expert but i think you need a gas drop next to each gas apliance low down in the floor or wall. Ie 1 for the fridge, 1 for the truma etc and then ventilation from above via the roof vents (some have vented seals on them so you cannot prevent air entering the van) or my van has one of those mushroom vents on that cant be closed. After checking the manual for my autosleeper it shows a gas drop at each appliance (3 in total) 2 vented roof lights and the 1 mushroom vent, thats on a puegot boxer. Id get some expert advise as you dont get a second chance with gas.
Dave

 

[Deleted member 36]

I think the poster is planning to have portable appliances, maybe just a one or two burner loose cooker with the gas connected even without a pipe, therefore drop vents may not be suitable. He/she could always open a door to let any escaped gas out. The main concern is the carbon monoxide gases.
Normal butane or propane will drop to the floor, but I am not sure what happens to carbon monoxide. I do know that co 2 alarms are recommended to be fitted at eye level.

 

[kimbowbill]

Still wouldnt cook without ventilation, remember the tragedy last year?, man died in his tent, horrible

 

[n brown]

i have a feeling that little girl who died on the campsite may be because of indoor barbie,i suggest choose where the cooking takes place and put an extractor fan there,not blowing into the awning area and be aware that most portable cookers don't have flame failure,apart from all that-no worries!

 

[Salmo]

Hi, Thanks for your comments, I should have said carbon monoxide not CO2. Yes, I am aware of the dangers and certainly intend to have at least a window open.. I've camped for decades so I'm not scared of fresh air even in the winter.. This is my first foray into "stealth camping" from a vehicle. It's nice to be part of such a friendly and helpful group.

 

[stephmac]

I had an experience of carbon monoxide poisoning,didn't know until I heard about the woman that died with the bbq in the tent. I felt ill after having a gas heater and cooker on with all doors and windows closed. I bought a detector and done the same again and the alarm went off after a few minutes, we leave the roof vent open at all times adjusting it as per wind and rain. Gas needs a dump vent as gas is heavier than air and hovers at floor level, carbon monoxide floats at waist level, head level if you are lying on a bed.Leaving the skylight open helps with condensation too. Don't risk it just cos your cold you'll be cold for a long time if you wake up and find your dead !!

 

[fairytooth]

Carbon Monoxide gas happens to be slightly lighter than air. BUT, although it tends to rise it also just mixes freely with normal air and any air currents in your van will disperse it easily throughout the entire living space.

The good news is that because we want zero CO, detectors are made very sensitive to miniscule amounts of it. So wherever you choose to mount a detector, it will be a good investment and possibly a life saver one day.

We keep one in van next to the smoke detector and one indoors near the gas boiler.

 

[Deleted member 36]

Carbon Monoxide gas happens to be slightly lighter than air. BUT, although it tends to rise it also just mixes freely with normal air and any air currents in your van will disperse it easily throughout the entire living space.

The good news is that because we want zero CO, detectors are made very sensitive to miniscule amounts of it. So wherever you choose to mount a detector, it will be a good investment and possibly a life saver one day.

We keep one in van next to the smoke detector and one indoors near the gas boiler.

We also have two fitted as well as two smoke detectors, which don't like toast!

 

[Salmo]

All good advice, thank you.......We are having a gas locker fitted with a dump hole in the floor so that should sort out any problems with storage.... We will be speaking with our converter about permanent ventilation as well as fitting a detector, I've already bought one!

 

[cedas]

Carbon monoxide alarms too sensistive?

Recently had a carbon monoxide detector fitted to my van - at same time as had a habitation check done. According to the certificate I have everything should be working just perfectly - yet the alarm went off when only the fridge was running on gas. No windows open - it was raining and no one in the van. Can they be too sensitive?? It is only a small van - romahome.

 

[Beemer]

A few years back during our 'tugging' days we were set up with an awning on the caravan and having a BBQ with one side panel open. It started to get cold so the BBQ was pulled into the awning and the side panel zipped up, the coals were all but gone but still emitting warmth.
About 15 mins later the Carbon monoxide alarm went off inside the caravan!!!!:scared:

 

[channa]

It is the first time I have read this post, and I am amazed at your converters attitude....I trust that they are acs accredited?

Any professional working with lpg needs to be
Ventilation, falls into two categories, habitation and gas... The amount required for the gas part is a relationship between floor area of the van and combined output of the appliance traditionally
EN721 the current standard simplifies matters......for eg if the plan area of the vehicle is up to. 5 sq metres minimum high level is 7500 mm squared and the minimum low level is 1000 mm squared
If roof vents are not used, then the minimum high level doubles
There are then minimum distances to be achieved in respect of bedding floor levels etc etc
Channa

 

[Tony Lee]

Recently had a carbon monoxide detector fitted to my van - at same time as had a habitation check done. According to the certificate I have everything should be working just perfectly - yet the alarm went off when only the fridge was running on gas. No windows open - it was raining and no one in the van. Can they be too sensitive?? It is only a small van - romahome.

All of the rear section of a gas fridge - including from the bottom of the lower vent to the top of the upper vent must be totally sealed from the habitation area. This means the sides, bottom and top of the fridge need to have effective sealing to prevent any combustion gases from getting into the living space.
You should check that the chimney is clear of obstructions and that the sealing is effective because although a very small amount of CO might get into the habitation area through vents- or be generated inside by other means, for enough to get in from just a fridge (or even a gas cooktop in use) to cause an alarm condition means something is seriously wrong.

NB Assume you weren't parked in the middle of a heap of motorhomes all with generators running - or downwind of a fuel stove chimney.

 

[channa]

Recently had a carbon monoxide detector fitted to my van - at same time as had a habitation check done. According to the certificate I have everything should be working just perfectly - yet the alarm went off when only the fridge was running on gas. No windows open - it was raining and no one in the van. Can they be too sensitive?? It is only a small van - romahome.

carbon monoxide detectors are notoriously difficult to position correctly in motorhomes because of the confined dimensions compared with a house.....and the smaller the vehicle the harder still.

However in terms of ventilation it pays to consider the following.

If an appliance uses air from the atmosphere in the motorhome, in which it is installed to maintain correct combustion, then it is necessary to replace air used by the appliance by way of fixed ventilation.


This does not mean opening windows..it
needs to be fixed and free of obstruction.

Channa