Talk to me about torque!

[whitevanwoman]

What torque setting (1 - 16) should I set my new 18v drill driver on for screwing through ply and metal into predrilled holes?

I think I've got all the other settings correct, low speed, rotary action etc, but the screwdriver bit is just spinning in the screw head and the screw isn't moving.. The pilot hole is a touch too small but the next size drill bit is too big. A couple of the screws have gone in no problem, but a couple simply won't budge.

I don't think this new machine is nearly as good at drilling as my old B&D hammer drill, I've ended up using that to drill the pilot holes but I can see how the new one will make life much easier as a driver, once I've got all the settings correct.

 

[mark61]

Sounds like you have the wrong driver bit. There are so many. Usual thing is to get wrong size pozi or mistake a pozi with a Philips


List of screw drives - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Assuming correct bit, start of with low setting until clutch on drill slips, then gradually increase torque setting until tight, you'll soon then find what setting works. Don't let the driver slip in the head, kills the driver bit very quickly and the screw head for that matter.

 

[outtolunch]

screwdriver bit should not be rotating in head of screw check you have correct bit for the screws when you reach set torque you will get a clicking from the drill and the bit will stop rotating start at low setting to get the feel of the drill and work up to a point where screw is fully home but not overtightening

 

[Firefox]

Is the bit the right size for the screw? Maybe a slightly larger bit, and a little more pressure on the tool? Start on a low torque setting and adjust upwards till you find what you need. It depends on the tool and maybe the state of charge too. I don't think you will need a very high setting for pre-drilled holes.

 

[jogguk]

Firstly you only ever need hammer action pact or whatever you want to call it for drilling concrete or brick walls nothing else.

Self tappers into steel are a bit different to fixing into wood. You need a high torque to start the initial screw off, which could be a bit too much to stop the screw eventually pulling through the ply! Most pro's don't use the various torque settings anyway, always set to maximum and learn a delicate touch to the speed sensitive trigger! The variable speed trigger is your friend, you do not just set the tool to low speed and jam the trigger full on! Start slowly and back off just before the screw head is flush with the ply and then tiny increments to get it level.

If the screwdriver bit is spinning in the head A) you have pozi screws and are using the wrong phillips/crosshead bit. b) cheap sh*ite bits that are to soft. c) cheap screws that have soft heads.

John

 

[Teutone]

May help if I can explain it in a way you can understand....

apart from having the correct bit (as mentioned in post above) it sometimes helps to use short "bursts" to get the screw in.
Means instead of pressing the trigger constantly (and getting to the point where the screw isn't turning anymore and your bit is rounding itself and the screw)
you just use a short 1/2 sec burst to move the screw in intervals.

The screw bit jumping out of the screw head means that you are not able to apply enough pressure to the screw driver to keep in place to overcome the torque of the screw
eating it's way into the metal.

If you go in short bursts you may be able to "lean" that half a second harder on the screw driver to keep the driver bit seated in the screw. So everytime you press the trigger you just press a bit harder. Keep doing this till you feel the resistance of the screw getting less and you can screw it all in.

Another way is to undo the screw a few turns when it get's stuck and try again (with some "momentum") if that makes sense.

About the torque setting on the drill. I only use them when working with very thin material or something which breaks easy. In your instance I would not bother with it and just leave on the "drill" symbol. Once the screw is where you want it, you either stop or the drill bit will just jump out of the screw head.

 

[whitevanwoman]

Thanks to both of you

start of with low setting until clutch on drill slips

:scared: clutch ???!!! :scared: it doesn't say anything about a clutch in the instructions

can you explain a little further please?

kills the driver bit very quickly and the screw head for that matter

.
that's exactly what's beginning to happen which is why I've stopped as I've ruined too many screw heads (and screws) in the past.

I'll try with different screw head, have never really understood the difference between Philips and Pozi, will have a look at the Wiki link.

I presume that the low setting is 1, with 16 being the highest?

 

[whitevanwoman]

It may be that I can't get quite enough strength behind the driver as it's a bit awkward and I'm having to stretch a bit to reach, so will try standing on something so that I can put my full body weight behind it.

The screws are zinc plated, pan head self tapping No. 8 x 1" and on the packet there is a blue circle with a cross in it so I'm guessing that is a Philips head required.

They are going through the ply no problem (in fact, I've got them going by hand) but it's when they hit the metal that I'm having the problem. I wondered whether to enlarge the pilot hole in the metal very slightly by wiggling the drill bit a touch. It could be the angle that I've drilled the hole at as it's awkward to get at because of a shelf directly above.

Or maybe to put a touch of grease on the screw?

 

[mark61]

I doubt it's a philips, almost certainly a pozi or similar.

Sorry didn't read post properly, must be a philips then.

 

[northernspirit2001]

I'd love to help but i'm no good at screwing :rabbit:, i use a hammer to knock the screws in :lol-053:


PS that rabbit smilie is far too appropriate!

 

[sparrks]

A philips head has a cross pattern + A pozi head has a star pattern * For power tools it's best to use a philips head - the fit is much firmer. (which is why it's more common in the building industry) Take a non-magnetic screwdiver bit of both philips and pozi along with the correct screw type and size (PZ1, PZ2, P1, P2 etc) for each, hold the bit horizontally and place the screw in the bit the philips should be able to hold the screw whilst the pozi one will normally fall out.

 

[Firefox]

You may find that a turn with a hand screw driver will sometimes help a stubborn screw especially when you are screwing into metal, as the hole you have drilled may be too small for the shank of the screw, but once you have got that first turn in, it expands the hole, and your power tool will do the rest. It depends on the angle but sometimes you can get more force with a hand tool in a tight space, and one turn is enough to clear the jam on the screw.

 

[mark61]

Thanks to both of you



:scared: clutch ???!!! :scared: it doesn't say anything about a clutch in the instructions

can you explain a little further please?

Sorry I probably used wrong term. The drill will make a clicking sound, and stop screwing, rather then the bit slipping in the screw.

 

[Teutone]

the right size pilot hole is crucial. No grease will help if the hole is too small I am afraid.

Presonally I always drill the hole in the part which needs to be fixed (the Ply in your case) LARGER than the screw so that the screw thread can't catch and pull the material AWAY from the face it needs to sit tight against. But I am a fussy fart and an engineer on top of that :lol-053:, we like to make things complicated.

Means if your hole in the ply is the same size as the pilot hole in the metal, you need to overcome BOTH materials to get the ply tight onto the metal.
- Ply fairly soft
- Screw goes easy into Ply all the way without engaging into the metal at all (but pushes the Ply away from the metal)
- To get screw into metal, you need to "spin" the screw in the Ply first.

does that make any sense??

 

[whitevanwoman]

i use a hammer to knock the screws in :lol-053:

Ha ha, I've done that before now too

A philips head has a cross pattern + A pozi head has a star pattern * For power tools it's best to use a philips head - the fit is much firmer. (which is why it's more common in the building industry) Take a non-magnetic screwdiver bit of both philips and pozi along with the correct screw type and size (PZ1, PZ2, P1, P2 etc) for each, hold the bit horizontally and place the screw in the bit the philips should be able to hold the screw whilst the pozi one will normally fall out.

It's definitely a picture of a cross and not a star on the packet. I'll test the screws and heads as you suggest... brb

 

[whitevanwoman]

The drill will make a clicking sound, and stop screwing, rather then the bit slipping in the screw.

Aha, I get it now, that's exactly what used to happen with the underpowered 4.8v chocolate fireguard power driver I wasted money on.

 

[whitevanwoman]

You may find that a turn with a hand screw driver will sometimes help a stubborn screw especially when you are screwing into metal, as the hole you have drilled may be too small for the shank of the screw, but once you have got that first turn in, it expands the hole, and your power tool will do the rest. It depends on the angle but sometimes you can get more force with a hand tool in a tight space, and one turn is enough to clear the jam on the screw.

Tried that, it worked with some of them but not these stubborn ones.

 

[whitevanwoman]

the right size pilot hole is crucial. No grease will help if the hole is too small I am afraid.

Presonally I always drill the hole in the part which needs to be fixed (the Ply in your case) LARGER than the screw so that the screw thread can't catch and pull the material AWAY from the face it needs to sit tight against. But I am a fussy fart and an engineer on top of that :lol-053:, we like to make things complicated.

Means if your hole in the ply is the same size as the pilot hole in the metal, you need to overcome BOTH materials to get the ply tight onto the metal.
- Ply fairly soft
- Screw goes easy into Ply all the way without engaging into the metal at all (but pushes the Ply away from the metal)
- To get screw into metal, you need to "spin" the screw in the Ply first.

does that make any sense??

That's exactly what's happening

 

[mark61]

View attachment 11612

 

[jogguk]

Or maybe to put a touch of grease on the screw?

Messy:lol-053:

Rub a candle on the screw to fill the threads with wax. Works well for screwing into hard woods. Also great to rub a candle on the sides of old handsaws, tree/ log cutting bow saws hacksaw blades, hand planes Etc.

For us more advanced hobbyists out there: a bit of candle wax on router tables, surface planner tables, saw bench tables, portable circular saws and router baseplates,


John