Steve121
If you watch the video linked to in post #8 it should make more sense. Whatever you do, DON'T USE A JIGSAW - it's quicker, a lot neater and less wasteful using just a template guided router. With practice it's quite easy.
Deleted member 951
Once the template is cut out, is it easier to use the bit you have cut out (ie. what would be the door if it wasn't to be a template), or the bit you have cut it out of (ie. what would be the cupboard front if it wasn't to be a template).
That might sound like nonsense and probably is!
n brown
Forum Member
i'd use the latter
if you're feeling clever- every door has the same radius corner, so you have to cut 4,which can be cut perfectly with a circle cutter
once you've cut these out they can be used for all the doors and all the straight edges can be cut from straight strips
if these templates are stuck with double sided tape to the side of the panel that won't be seen, then any damage done when removing will be hidden.
complicated as this may seem, it would be a lot easier than cutting out separate templates for each door size
if this doesn't make sense i'll illustrate it
if you're feeling clever- every door has the same radius corner, so you have to cut 4,which can be cut perfectly with a circle cutter
once you've cut these out they can be used for all the doors and all the straight edges can be cut from straight strips
if these templates are stuck with double sided tape to the side of the panel that won't be seen, then any damage done when removing will be hidden.
complicated as this may seem, it would be a lot easier than cutting out separate templates for each door size
if this doesn't make sense i'll illustrate it
Deleted member 951
Makes perfect sense Nigel.
Could that maybe be taken further by just cutting one circle and cut it into 4 quarters for the corners and make an adjustable jig with straight edges and clamps?
n brown
Forum Member
exactly what i meant Rob re- the corners. if you draw the rectangle of the door on the panel's reverse side, 12mm added to height and width for the template guide, then you could tape ,pin or clamp the corners in place and you would then be able to see what length the straight bits need to be
Martin P
Forum Member
Ho ho. Great thread. Ask 3 woodworkers the same question and get 4 different answers.
Using a template to cut out for doors and then using the cut out parts FOR doors seems jolly clever but is it better?. Personally I think the pic with the overlay doors on the first post is a better option.
Firstly most professionaly built motorhomes are built this way, the reasons being thus.
It is a simpler method. Tolerances are almost immaterial. Expansion contraction issues are non existent. Hinging is simpler. Door stops are not needed. Also I think it looks better.
Frames could and often are made from strips biscuit joined together. Iron on edging can be run around openings. This is probably the most economical way of using sheet material of all methods
!
The main drawback of using the cut and use cutout as door method is that any slight error is going to be obvious. I would argue that this method does not start out looking any better than layover doors and unless the cutting and hinging is absolutely perfect is going to look 2nd rate. 1/2 mil difference in gap round a door shows very badly. Its one of those things I think sounds very clever but actually isnt
I would cut doors with a festool tracksaw and round the corners with a 9 mm mdf template clamped to the top and use a bearing guide router cutter after first rough cutting the curves on the bandsaw
Then you could use the thin bearing guided cutter for the t trim or I would use a 2 mm abs edging strip applied with my hot melt edgebander.
Happy woodworking
Using a template to cut out for doors and then using the cut out parts FOR doors seems jolly clever but is it better?. Personally I think the pic with the overlay doors on the first post is a better option.
Firstly most professionaly built motorhomes are built this way, the reasons being thus.
It is a simpler method. Tolerances are almost immaterial. Expansion contraction issues are non existent. Hinging is simpler. Door stops are not needed. Also I think it looks better.
Frames could and often are made from strips biscuit joined together. Iron on edging can be run around openings. This is probably the most economical way of using sheet material of all methods
!
The main drawback of using the cut and use cutout as door method is that any slight error is going to be obvious. I would argue that this method does not start out looking any better than layover doors and unless the cutting and hinging is absolutely perfect is going to look 2nd rate. 1/2 mil difference in gap round a door shows very badly. Its one of those things I think sounds very clever but actually isnt
I would cut doors with a festool tracksaw and round the corners with a 9 mm mdf template clamped to the top and use a bearing guide router cutter after first rough cutting the curves on the bandsaw
Then you could use the thin bearing guided cutter for the t trim or I would use a 2 mm abs edging strip applied with my hot melt edgebander.
Happy woodworking
n brown
Forum Member
i agree about the lay on doors making more sense, but some builders have a strong urge to have all the grain matching up and running the same way. each to their own, i don't like the lightweight board, too easily damaged, irreparable and far too expensive , and boring to look at ,mostly. but if i use it, then as you say, chop up with the plunge saw and biscuit joint the frames,you can buy self adhesive flat plastic strip to cover the cut edges of the door holes if you don't have an edge bander
on the plus side making furniture with this board, with 't' trim and the slot in corner profiles, is possible even for beginners, so that's a good thing
on the plus side making furniture with this board, with 't' trim and the slot in corner profiles, is possible even for beginners, so that's a good thing
Martin P
Forum Member
As you say each to their own and thats a good thing. Its good to see people having a go. Everyday is a schoolday and techniques develop and evolve.. I have seen people with few tools and little experience fit out narrow boats and its often that I notice an unorthodox solution to a particular problem that with a little re jigging can be added to the pot.
Its nice to be able to add some useful ideas especially as I know **** all about anything other than woodwork. As my old master used to say. I was born with sawdust for brains so its all I know!
Its nice to be able to add some useful ideas especially as I know **** all about anything other than woodwork. As my old master used to say. I was born with sawdust for brains so its all I know!
Deleted member 2473
you lads are good
Love this good on ya
Thanks all.
Love this good on ya
Thanks all.
Byronic
Bit off topic,
I've completed 3 vans using the poplar Vohringer board and plastic knock in edging concept. The last was a LWB T2 Mercedes 609d (largest PVC available) so was a bit bored (pun intended) with RN 204 Laminate everywhere, but it was a friends van.
So on the next one I decided to find a way to do the whole of an interior using just the simplest hand tools. I constructed virtually everything from 3.76mm ply single sided real ash veneer panels on ply or timber framework. The ply could be cut with a knife blade run along a steel edge door faces cut straight out of the panel, so no wastage and matched veneers you could say.
The doors were nearly all hollow core the inner face 3mm B&Q 3mm photo finish ply. Light section mitred wood moulding edge frames all round, meant the doors could be over laid rather than flush faced. Tables made in a similar manner ie hollow core but both faces ash veneer & 15mm thick to suit plastic knock-in edging, wood mouldings/edging wouldn't take the knocks as it were. Easy to run wiring hidden in the framing.
Anyway due to the hollow core constr. and only single ply where practical, it all ended up quite a lot lighter than 15mm poplar board, not to mention MDF, or should that MD bleeding F. I've seen vans with high payloads crippled by the weight of MDF.
Suddenly a moment of deja vu, think I've mentioned all this before, ah well old age an all that and it was 25 years ago.
I've completed 3 vans using the poplar Vohringer board and plastic knock in edging concept. The last was a LWB T2 Mercedes 609d (largest PVC available) so was a bit bored (pun intended) with RN 204 Laminate everywhere, but it was a friends van.
So on the next one I decided to find a way to do the whole of an interior using just the simplest hand tools. I constructed virtually everything from 3.76mm ply single sided real ash veneer panels on ply or timber framework. The ply could be cut with a knife blade run along a steel edge door faces cut straight out of the panel, so no wastage and matched veneers you could say.
The doors were nearly all hollow core the inner face 3mm B&Q 3mm photo finish ply. Light section mitred wood moulding edge frames all round, meant the doors could be over laid rather than flush faced. Tables made in a similar manner ie hollow core but both faces ash veneer & 15mm thick to suit plastic knock-in edging, wood mouldings/edging wouldn't take the knocks as it were. Easy to run wiring hidden in the framing.
Anyway due to the hollow core constr. and only single ply where practical, it all ended up quite a lot lighter than 15mm poplar board, not to mention MDF, or should that MD bleeding F. I've seen vans with high payloads crippled by the weight of MDF.
Suddenly a moment of deja vu, think I've mentioned all this before, ah well old age an all that and it was 25 years ago.
groyne
Blimey, 4 pages, I only asked what bit size. :lol-049:
Byronic
You could say you got a bit more than you asked for.
groyne
Boom, boom.:raofl:
But to further add to this thread, I want 3 doors in a run of top lockers which will be approximately 1500mm long by 300mm deep. To be esthetically pleasing how big should the doors be?
Martin P
Forum Member
Lol. If the front of the lockers is 300 high.
Is the bottom of the lockers flush or raised up to semi hide curtain rails or lights etc.
Are there any practical constraints. Obstructions for opening doors etc.
Are all the cupboards the same in size
Wall runs are often flush fronts with doors filling all the available space . Will this be the case or will they all be separately spaced.
What edgings are you using
If to be separately spaced doors do they need a wide set in at each end.
What hinges are they on
Lol
Is the bottom of the lockers flush or raised up to semi hide curtain rails or lights etc.
Are there any practical constraints. Obstructions for opening doors etc.
Are all the cupboards the same in size
Wall runs are often flush fronts with doors filling all the available space . Will this be the case or will they all be separately spaced.
What edgings are you using
If to be separately spaced doors do they need a wide set in at each end.
What hinges are they on
Lol
Deleted member 951
It may well be worth googling motorhome lockers and looking at the images, which may give you some sense of proportion, and choose what would be aesthetically pleasing to yourself.
motorhome lockers - Google Search
Or, look at some motorhome for sale sites, which often include pictures of the fitout.
motorhome lockers - Google Search
Or, look at some motorhome for sale sites, which often include pictures of the fitout.
Byronic
This obviously is going take some serious decision making. The application of some architectural principles are required I would suggest, in order to make the most appropriate decision!
You could take the classical approach and consider the Doric Order (first order) ie simplicity and purity of form, 3 equal sized doors with equal spacing with halved spacing at both abutments;
so 3 x 400mm doors with 50mm at ends and 100mm between doors.
Or alternatively you could apply the more modern contemporary architectural principles say le Corbusier "a van is a machine for living in" or perhaps Bauhaus based, such as form following function;
so measure up that which you intend putting in proposed cupboards, and make sure it fits, even if one door needs to be 600mm and the others 300mm.
Wish you hadn't kept the thread going now lol.
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