is VED payable on old ambulances that people convert?

[Millie Master]

I was reading this reply by a member with the name of "Thistle" to a topic on the sister site Wild Camping and thought it was so relevant to members of this Group: -

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"Ah well that's a category I know very well, I do a lot of electrical work on ex Ambulances being converted into motor caravans.
Ambulances in service are usually ved exempt, (fyi it is impossible to report a ved evader to the DVLA for driving an ex Ambulance under the exemption hence why the hard core dishonest ones get away with it for years)

I have learnt the hard way not touch one if its still being driven whilst the owner is exploiting it previous ved exempt status!
Simple reason behind that rule, those people that do are usually dishonourable people and are often the most likely to be the non payers!

I also have had many many conversations with people some seemingly too lazy or ignorant to find out and actually digest what the body type, taxation class, revenue weight and vehicle type sections etc on their V5 mean.

A significant proportion of people buy them because the are told (by equally dishonest traders) they are VED exempt well yes they are when being used as an Ambulance. The honest ones do change the taxation class from Ambulance to PLG or PHGV eventually.

That is when the poor sods who mistakenly bought a PTS Ambulance (aka a minibus) rather than an ex A&E van variant find out the Vehicle type on their V5 says M1(<=3500kg) or M2(>3500kg) rather than the usual N1 or N2.

It became increasingly common from circa 2012 onwards that minibuses were registered with Vehicle type on their V5 as M1 or M2

Sadly the Vehicle type category is 100% set in stone at the time the vehicle is first registered it can never be changed
In addition M1 means the vehicle is taxed as a car, based on emissions some of the older more polluting M1 van owners are paying the top rate of £500+

@barge1914
There is a potential workaround though, uprate the vehicle to >3500KG, get the taxation class changed to PHGV and although the Vehicle type remains M1 Ved is then the fixed rate of £165 for PHGV. "

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Food for thought and most certainly new information to me

 

[Duckato]

Yep, obviously I wrote that in context to a question about the vehicle type approval category M1.
And the originally questioner did not have an ex service vehicle so I wasn't suggesting he was a ved evader hence the bit specific to him at the bottom.

People buying ved exempt ex service vehicles put themselves in an awkward position if they want to use the vehicle on the road immediately.

It still has to be taxed and assuming it has mot and insurance that can be done for no charge online or at a post office by exploiting the vehicles previous exemption status.

Obviously the correct, honest and honourable thing to do is have the vehicle delivered and not drive it until the taxation class is changed to plg or phgv. I did that with both of mine.

No doubt some despicable people even do the same with ved exempt disabled vehicles as well but I don’t have first hand experience of those.

The exemption is well documented it applies to Ambulances being used solely for the conveyance of patients to and from a place of treatment. It is not valid for private use as a camper, burger bar, mobile workshop recovery vehicle, poodle parlour etc!

I mentioned above that it’s virtually impossible to report ved evaders, even police officers seemingly have no way to check.
The taxation class status is not flagged by conventional anpr so as I said people have got away with it for years and still are.

However I think that is starting to change, Anpr is now being used for congestion zone charging which has different criteria and even ved exempt vehicles still have to pay unless they are pre exempted. Bristol (iirc) for example require all non euro VI emergency service vehicles to be pre registered. If not a pcn is issued, if the vehicle is registered to a private individual this may set a red flag with the DVLA.

Although rare DVSA road side checks unlike police officers can identify ved evading vehicles operators, If discovered then because the vehicle can’t immediately then be properly taxed (i.e by paying for it like the rest of us honest individuals do), the vehicle is then usually seized and as it currently takes several weeks for the taxation class to be changed by the dvla, the storage and seizure charges can be considerable, not good if the vans being used as a home.

I had quite a lengthy discussion a while ago with a DVLA evasion officer, they are painfully aware of this kind of ved evasion which contributes to in excess of £90 million plus of lost revenue annually which obviously directly translates to less money for hmg to spend on other stuff….

What’s also daft is the DVLA doesn’t include a taxation class query in it app api yet. but I understand it has been requested.
This currently prevents us being able to look the taxation class up online or via tools such as vehicle smart.

It would certainly make my life easier if I could check as I could then easily turn away potential freeloaders before wasting my time giving them quotes etc.

Obviously I am not suggesting all ved evaders are dishonest some are just ignorant of their responsibilities or gullible.

I recently had a guy that passed his test only a year ago turn up in a Ducato Maxi, He had not noticed the Mot had expired or that it was not taxed nor that his driving licence did not cover him for a van plated at 4250kg!

How he didn't trigger every Anpr between Manchester and my home beats me, if that had resulted in him being stopped I am pretty sure he would have lost his licence as well as I think its probationary for the first two years.

The Van is now Motd and taxed and he is having a debate with the company he bought it from re who was supposed to have sent in the paperwork to the DVLA to downplate it.

The van has got an SVtech sticker on it, so somebody did start that part of the process but seemingly never sent the application off to the DVLA, my gut feeling is it was down to him, but as I said at the start of the previous post many people make little effort to read let alone digest their own V5 unfortunately.

 

[SquirrellCook]

If I were to purchase a new chassis cab with a gross weight of 7.5 tonne, I would insist that it was registered as a M1 with a weight exemption.
A motorhome classed as a Private HGV is technically illegal despite being done by a government body.

 

[wildebus]

If I were to purchase a new chassis cab with a gross weight of 7.5 tonne, I would insist that it was registered as a M1 with a weight exemption.
A motorhome classed as a Private HGV is technically illegal despite being done by a government body.

You could try and insist, but would it happen in reality?

 

[trevskoda]

Mine says private hgv but has motorcaravan alongside bus on the tax/log book, not sure what i have to be honest.