Inverter cutting out

[Dockolli]

Good afternoon
I was hoping someone could give me some idea how what is going wrong.

When I try to use a camping kettle 900-1100w or try to boil some water on the induction hob the inverter cuts out after about a minute on a little later.

I have 360w solar panel which then runs via a solar inverter from renogy which also charges the batteries from the alternator as well when driving
2 X 100 a lithium batteries and a 2000w continuous inverter from photonic universe.
The batteries are fully charged and nothing else is running of the inverter and only the fridge of the 12v battery at the same time.
We have not turned up induction to maximum only at 3-5/9.

Not sure why it cuts out and no error code etc.

Many thanks

Christoph

 

[wildebus]

Good afternoon
I was hoping someone could give me some idea how what is going wrong.

When I try to use a camping kettle 900-1100w or try to boil some water on the induction hob the inverter cuts out after about a minute on a little later.

I have 360w solar panel which then runs via a solar inverter from renogy which also charges the batteries from the alternator as well when driving
2 X 100 a lithium batteries and a 2000w continuous inverter from photonic universe.
The batteries are fully charged and nothing else is running of the inverter and only the fridge of the 12v battery at the same time.
We have not turned up induction to maximum only at 3-5/9.

Not sure why it cuts out and no error code etc.

Many thanks

Christoph

post up the model of the Inverter

As far as the Hob goes, many (most?) Induction hobs are not a steady power but pulse between maximum power and off, and the mix of on and off times end up averaging at the power setting you select (you can tell if you have a hob like this by watching liquid - if it bubbles then stops then bubbles then stops etc etc it is this kind of Hob).
These type of Induction Hobs need an inverter that can cope with the maximum rated power regardless of what power you choose.

What batteries have you got - make and model? - and do you know the maximum rated current? Some Lithium batteries have quite a low maximum continuous current and even with a pair you could be hitting their limit even at 1300W (which is what you could be driving the batteries at with a 1100W kettle once inverter losses are included.

Have you got another load you could put on of around 500W? and then maybe 750W? get an idea of what point it cuts out.

 

[Dockolli]

post up the model of the Inverter

As far as the Hob goes, many (most?) Induction hobs are not a steady power but pulse between maximum power and off, and the mix of on and off times end up averaging at the power setting you select (you can tell if you have a hob like this by watching liquid - if it bubbles then stops then bubbles then stops etc etc it is this kind of Hob).
These type of Induction Hobs need an inverter that can cope with the maximum rated power regardless of what power you choose.

What batteries have you got - make and model? - and do you know the maximum rated current? Some Lithium batteries have quite a low maximum continuous current and even with a pair you could be hitting their limit even at 1300W (which is what you could be driving the batteries at with a 1100W kettle once inverter losses are included.

Have you got another load you could put on of around 500W? and then maybe 750W? get an idea of what point it cuts out.

Thank you for advice.

The batteries are Renogy 100a each. Link attached and bottom of page all the stats.

12V 100Ah Smart Lithium Iron Phosphate Battery

The Renogy Smart Lithium Iron Phosphate Battery enables auto-balance among parallel-connections and provides more flexibility for battery connection thanks to its RJ45 communication ports. If you're searching for a deep cycle battery for caravan, cabin, or marine use, then this lightweight...

uk.renogy.com

Inverter 2000w cont 4000w max. And I will attach instructions.

 

[Dockolli]

post up the model of the Inverter

As far as the Hob goes, many (most?) Induction hobs are not a steady power but pulse between maximum power and off, and the mix of on and off times end up averaging at the power setting you select (you can tell if you have a hob like this by watching liquid - if it bubbles then stops then bubbles then stops etc etc it is this kind of Hob).
These type of Induction Hobs need an inverter that can cope with the maximum rated power regardless of what power you choose.

What batteries have you got - make and model? - and do you know the maximum rated current? Some Lithium batteries have quite a low maximum continuous current and even with a pair you could be hitting their limit even at 1300W (which is what you could be driving the batteries at with a 1100W kettle once inverter losses are included.

Have you got another load you could put on of around 500W? and then maybe 750W? get an idea of what point it cuts out.

Sorry I should have said the induction hob certainly stops and starts and you can hear it.

 

[wildebus]

so the Inverter has to cope with Full Hob Power - maybe 2000W? (the Induction Hob in my Camper was a 2kW model). That should be within the Inverter level (just, but it should).
The Batteries Spec says "Maximum Continuous Discharging Current: 100 A" - so a pair of them can deliver 200A. That should be ok as well (but again not that much leeway).
It looks like something is not delivering upto its specification, but it is the Battery or is it the Inverter?
when the inverter cuts out, do you lose anything on 12V? Lights, TV, etc? if so, I'd suspect battery; if no, I'd suspect Inverter.

 

[Dockolli]

so the Inverter has to cope with Full Hob Power - maybe 2000W? (the Induction Hob in my Camper was a 2kW model). That should be within the Inverter level (just, but it should).
The Batteries Spec says "Maximum Continuous Discharging Current: 100 A" - so a pair of them can deliver 200A. That should be ok as well (but again not that much leeway).
It looks like something is not delivering upto its specification, but it is the Battery or is it the Inverter?
when the inverter cuts out, do you lose anything on 12V? Lights, TV, etc? if so, I'd suspect battery; if no, I'd suspect Inverter.

The rest keeps running as normal, meaning fridge and lights. And after about 30 seconds inverter comes live again for another minute or so. Usually once cut out twice given up. I always only use 1 of the 2 plates on a 13amp plug in induction hob so I would hope the inverter would cope.

 

[wildebus]

The rest keeps running as normal, meaning fridge and lights. And after about 30 seconds inverter comes live again for another minute or so. Usually once cut out twice given up. I always only use 1 of the 2 plates on a 13amp plug in induction hob so I would hope the inverter would cope.

As mentioned, it doesn't matter if you use 1 or 2 plates - it will run at full power for a period of time regardless. All you are doing by using 1 plate is extending the off time.

 

[Dockolli]

As mentioned, it doesn't matter if you use 1 or 2 plates - it will run at full power for a period of time regardless. All you are doing by using 1 plate is extending the off time.

Is there a way to check the inverter easily, was thinking of using multimeter and input point and see if voltage drops? If yes battery, if not inverter? Does that sound reasonable?

 

[wildebus]

check the voltage at the inverter terminals as the inverter is on and the load ramps up yes. if you are not loosing the battery it won't be that (but have to make sure the Solar is not running as that could still make the lights work withiut the battery.)

 

[Dockolli]

Thanks. Will try to do this tomorrow.

 

[mistericeman]

Are the cables from the inverter to the batteries etc up to size for the power/length of run?

 

[Dockolli]

Are the cables from the inverter to the batteries etc up to size for the power/length of run?

I used the original cables that came with the inverter. The distance from battery to inverter is about 30 cm.

check the voltage at the inverter terminals as the inverter is on and the load ramps up yes. if you are not loosing the battery it won't be that (but have to make sure the Solar is not running as that could still make the lights work withiut the battery.)

check the voltage at the inverter terminals as the inverter is on and the load ramps up yes. if you are not loosing the battery it won't be that (but have to make sure the Solar is not running as that could still make the lights work withiut the battery.)

I have just been outside and checked. Can't upload the video as too large but link should work. Used a camping low wattage kettle to try continuous demand instead of inverter on and off. Kettle is 900-1100w. It works for a bit and then voltage drops so inverter cuts out. Then all back to normal after a minute or so.
I guess battery management system might be an issue but I don't have control over it.

 

[SquirrellCook]

This does read like a case of "whatever you think you need, double it"

 

[wildebus]

I am generally wary of ratings on Inverters - there is so much rubbish out there which hasn't got a hope in hell of delivering what is claimed (which is why I tend to only really recommend Victron ones as I KNOW they deliver to their specs).
However, Photonic Universe are very reputable and don't sell stuff that doesn't work like it should, so I would expect a 2000W inverter from them can deliver 2000W, and for sure drive a 1100W kettle.
I think the cables provided with that Inverter are 25mm and are adequate for the job.

Watched the video and the voltage didn't just drop, it plummeted to virtually nothing. I would say that was the Battery BMS disconnecting the battery cells and the issue (to me) looks much more like a battery fault. The specs of the battery are such there should be no issue running that kind of load as they should be able to deliver 200A.

 

[Dockolli]

I am generally wary of ratings on Inverters - there is so much rubbish out there which hasn't got a hope in hell of delivering what is claimed (which is why I tend to only really recommend Victron ones as I KNOW they deliver to their specs).
However, Photonic Universe are very reputable and don't sell stuff that doesn't work like it should, so I would expect a 2000W inverter from them can deliver 2000W, and for sure drive a 1100W kettle.
I think the cables provided with that Inverter are 25mm and are adequate for the job.

Watched the video and the voltage didn't just drop, it plummeted to virtually nothing. I would say that was the Battery BMS disconnecting the battery cells and the issue (to me) looks much more like a battery fault. The specs of the battery are such there should be no issue running that kind of load as they should be able to deliver 200A.

Thank you for your help. That is what I thought. I have written to the battery manufacturer.
Let's see what they say

 

[xsilvergs]

Is it these?

Pouch cells

 

[Dockolli]

Is it these?

Pouch cells

Yes it is. Sorry my knowledge is not that good. What does pouch cells mean?

 

[wildebus]

Is it these?

Pouch cells

What is the significance of this to the poster issue? If it is a battery issue (which I think is likely), it will be the BMS and not a cell design type that is probably the problem.

Can a battery using Pouch Cells deliver a high current? Here is a single 100Ah Battery fitted with Pouch Cells providing over 90A to help run a Microwave. That is 1168W (With Inverter losses).

 

[wildebus]

Yes it is. Sorry my knowledge is not that good. What does pouch cells mean?

It is a type of Lithium Cell.

 

[xsilvergs]

Yes it is. Sorry my knowledge is not that good. What does pouch cells mean?

Your battery is made up of a number of cells. There are different types of cell construction, prismatic, cylindrical and pouch. Cylindrical are round and have a metal outer, so inherently strong. Prismatic are rectangular in shape, take a look at the DIY Lithium thread. Pouch cells look like silver plastic bags and will be in a hard case and need to be supported to stop them getting damaged.