Heating the van with the gas hob

[Deleted member 951]

Indeed not all boats are modern. But older boats can be fitted with modern devices such as bilge blowers.

I do my boating mainly on inland waterways, and yes we have our fair share of fires/explosions. Mainly on boats who's owners do not fit such devices!

 

[Grimola]

I don't have a proper heater or the budget for one. I test my CO detector regularly and will not just fall asleep with the hob lit - I don't drink (ever) and I don't do drugs so I'm not going to just fall asleep by accident. So, where is the danger exactly?
And comments such as NO NO NO without any argument are of no use whatsoever.

I have thought about this subject (and did a bit of research on the net) when I built my van, in the end, bought a propex heater (but was lucky enough to afford one).

I am no expert but I believe an increase in carbon monoxide can make you sleepy or fall asleep - which is what catches people out. Remember that the small camping heaters are designed for tents where there is plenty of airflow, a van will be more airtight so no airflow.

But we all make cups of tea in our vans and have the hob on for 10-15 mins so perhaps you could boil a kettle and a pan of water and turn the hob off and the hot water filled kettle will act like a small radiator . Not sure how long it will take for the van to cool down though! I do notice the air quality change in the van (probably other fumes) when I have boiled a kettle so I tend to open the window but I do use the van in the winter just early spring to late autumn.

End if the day there is risk in everything we do - using the hob to heat your van with all precautions just increases your risk of dying form carbon monoxide. Bit like Russian roulette you might get away with it but there is a high chance you might not!

Just my thoughts.

 

[channa]

My thoughts on this are quite simple, there is no substitute for correct heating and ventilation.

Using a hob for heat gives us two potential problems, Any fault on the burners that effects efficient combustion will result in producing Carbon Monoxide. Even when tested flame picture is realistically all that can be observed. Food detritus , spilt liquids can soon affect burning efficiency,

To give an idea only 400 parts per million of CO can produce risk of life after 3 hours exposure. It does not take a lot of CO to kill people. Naturally a cooker you wouldn't use for this period but the OP is talking about heating. in a small space and I often wonder how many self builds particularly are adequately ventilated.

Even if things are working correctly, correct combustion produces Carbon dioxide co2 and water vapour. The latter is condensation as the temperature drops, the atmosphere becomes "damp" and uncomfortable.

A lot of people invest faith in carbon monoxide detectors and whilst never a bad idea, Better to have than not have , It seems to me people see them as the guardian angel and they are NOT

By nature of motor home size and the size of the living space correct location is extremely difficult and often a compromise. The type of detector for info purposes should comply with EN 50291 and installation should comply with EN 50292 ( the latter is a guide for selection siting and maintenance )

Considerations where not to site

1) Where they can be obstructed by furniture blinds and curtains
2)Where it located in an area subject to draughts of fresh air , so doors windows and vents
3)Above or adjacent to sources of heat
4)Where dirt or dust can or could block the sensors
5) In damp or humid areas.

Hopefully I have demonstrated and readers can see motorhomes are not conducive to correct installation by their nature.

My last point is I get the impression people see them as foolproof , and a guaranteed insurance .I am suggesting they aren't !Of course they are useful but please don't think they are a guaranteed Get out of Jail card

Channa

 

[Geraldine]

Our van Geraldine has a two hob burner and a grill. In the mornings we like a cup of tea first thing,the kettle boils away happily not setting off the Co2 Alarm. Later when we want some toast cooked under the grill the Co2 Alarm goes mental and we open as many vents as possible.
Sometimes wish we had some heating, but £500 plus is a lot of money to spend.
Cheers.
David

 

[1888]

Our van Geraldine has a two hob burner and a grill. In the mornings we like a cup of tea first thing,the kettle boils away happily not setting off the Co2 Alarm. Later when we want some toast cooked under the grill the Co2 Alarm goes mental and we open as many vents as possible.
Sometimes wish we had some heating, but £500 plus is a lot of money to spend.
Cheers.
David

The predictable answer will be. How much is your life worth?

 

[IanH]

Assuming you survive the experiment, please do consider that burning one unit (pint/gallon/litre pound, whatever you wish) of gas, the by product, among lethal gases is the same unit of WATER

Burn gas, in a non ventilated space, get condensation/damp................:scared:

 

[mandrake]

Just so people know. Commercial roof lights are permanently ventilated even when closed

yes ,i also belive that if you have a fridge there is ample ventilation as the vents on the outside work quite well ,i say this because every camper ,motorhome or caravan i have been in ,you seem to have a hurricane blowing through them at times .i certainly would not leave any heating on overnight , no matter what , i can think of other better activities to keep warm , also a duvet or decent sleeping bag is quite adequate .

 

[Byronic]

yes ,i also belive that if you have a fridge there is ample ventilation as the vents on the outside work quite well ,i say this because every camper ,motorhome or caravan i have been in ,you seem to have a hurricane blowing through them at times .i certainly would not leave any heating on overnight , no matter what , i can think of other better activities to keep warm , also a duvet or decent sleeping bag is quite adequate .

The back of the fridge gets ventilated/cooled with exterior air, there should be none or minimal air from the van getting behind the fridge. If.there is then it's because it has been fitted incorrectly. Usually the top baffle is missing, even manufacturers have been known to 'forget' to install this top baffle.

 

[maingate]

I have yet to own a van that has the Fridge sealed 100% from the interior. This is usually discovered when a strong breeze is blowing on the side of the van where the vents are. Self builders probably do a better job in this respect than the big manufacturers.

 

[wakk44]

I have yet to own a van that has the Fridge sealed 100% from the interior. This is usually discovered when a strong breeze is blowing on the side of the van where the vents are. Self builders probably do a better job in this respect than the big manufacturers.

That is very true,I have had an Autotrail that had quite a breeze when the fridge vents were on the windward side and even the current Hymer which is allegedly one of the premium brands lets some air through in high winds.

 

[maingate]

That's not what my CO Monitor thought.

The Gas is odourless but the fumes from the flame made it very noticeable.

Steve, my current van has the large square top vent and the exhaust pipe is set back a bit from it. It's a poor design in my view and there is not much can be done to improve it. Over the Winter I have improved the seal between the Fridge and Hab area. It is a very tall Fridge/Freezer and not possible to do much from the outside of the van (through the vents).

My last van was vastly improved by fitting offcuts of flameproof foam rubber (from a Furniture maker) in the areas behind the Fridge where hoses and wiring ran right through behind it. Another poor design.

I have also fitted a new Fridge Burner over the Winter.

 

[Byronic]

These Domestic fridges can be fitted beneath a top hung window! Not recommended but not specifically banned either. Bearing that in mind I don't think there's real risk even if fridge burner combustion gasses were to waft in through the vent, the large volume behind the fridge would dissipate the exhaust gasses given off by a titchy pilot light sized fridge burner. Some would vent out through the.bottom vent. But that's just my take on it FWIW.

In days of old the lighting in caravans was provided by a naked gas flame via a mantle, no specific vent, not best practice but I think most people survived the night!

 

[Nesting Zombie]

Assuming you survive the experiment, please do consider that burning one unit (pint/gallon/litre pound, whatever you wish) of gas, the by product, among lethal gases is the same unit of WATER

Burn gas, in a non ventilated space, get condensation/damp................:scared:

Hi Ya,
Yeah I've heard this before, & as most Know we are talking Lpg so it makes sense really, BUT it would be interesting to see if that IS in fact the case On a say Ltr to Ltr basis & Does the volume of water produced & Put into the Habitation area change IF you have an External air feed & Flu for the fire !.
Now I know there's some Gas Whizzes about on here !.

 

[Byronic]

Also used to have a gas fridge with no exterior venting flue, as was designed. We reckon it helped us sleep soundly, strangely particularly Sunday mornings until roughly midday !
Luckily the landlady was related to Rigsby of Rising Damp, she didn't want 4 non rent paying corpses, so she knew it was safe!

 

[channa]

Back OT the original thread is about heating !

I am going to share a story, I have thought about this before posting because quite frankly it is disturbing to any normal human being.

I believe I could be wrong but Old Arthur may know the tale too as we both know a lot of the same people.

As some of you know I spent a period working on the fairgrounds. The showman I worked for had a fatality in a touring caravan prior to my arrival.

What happened is a young lady went to sleep in touring van, never woke up to be blunt, died from CO poisoning. Coroners inquest proved that the amount of co in the bloodstream.

It appears she slept with a carver fire on flued through the floor but a room sealed appliance. which for all intents are "safe".

Because of a fatality involved HSE were involved in the investigation. Bearing in mind these people are fully qualified, experienced and are by nature of incident looking for faults..They are not the average DIY er that thinks they know it all.

Roger had the van tested for his staff, HSE found no obvious fault ( I bet the engineer relieved about that).

The Coroner delivered an open verdict, However it was suggested that because it was snowing it is possible a fox or similar had snuggled up to the vent, created a blockage that allowed co in the van albeit the HSE did not find an obvious leak !! which would have made for an easy explanation.

If that is the case , and considering 400 parts per million CO can induce death, If such a small amount of CO can render occupants death, Then playing your luck lighting Hobs seems lunacy

Channa

 

[Tbear]

Signs and symptoms of carbon monoxide poisoning may include:
Dull headache.
Weakness.
Dizziness.
Nausea or vomiting.
Shortness of breath.
Confusion.
Blurred vision.
Loss of consciousness.

If you are anyone around show/feel any of the above. Consider CO poisoning. Leave Your Vehicle. Take a couple of big deep breaths and alert anyone still in there.

It is however perfectly safe to use your gas hob to cook or for a short while to take the chill off if you use a little bit of common sense.

Richard

 

[Byronic]

Back OT the original thread.

If that is the case , and considering 400 parts per million CO can induce death, If such a small amount of CO can render occupants death, Then playing your luck lighting Hobs seems lunacy

Channa

Lighting the hob is the only way in most instances you're going to get a cuppa!

I think what most of us on this thread are in general agreement on is that using a hob for a short period, that is, as long as it takes to boil water for couple of cups of tea or cook a meal it should be OK. Why wouldn't it? I don't think anyone
is suggesting leaving a hob lit and going for a kip is advisable, are they?

 

[channa]

Lighting the hob is the only way in most instances you're going to get a cuppa!

I think what most of us on this thread are in general agreement on is that using a hob for a short period, that is, as long as it takes to boil water for couple of cups of tea or cook a meal it should be OK. Why wouldn't it? I don't think anyone
is suggesting leaving a hob lit and going for a kip is advisable, are they?

Please show a little more respect I know damn well what hobs are designed for serviced enough!! ....The OP for your convenience was talking about using the hob for heating not its intended purpose !!

Not a cup of tea in the morning they were talking about using it as a source of heat ....perhaps a re read the original post !!!.

Channa

 

[maingate]

Signs and symptoms of carbon monoxide poisoning may include:
Dull headache.
Weakness.
Dizziness.
Nausea or vomiting.
Shortness of breath.
Confusion.
Blurred vision.
Loss of consciousness.

If you are anyone around show/feel any of the above. Consider CO poisoning. Leave Your Vehicle. Take a couple of big deep breaths and alert anyone still in there.

It is however perfectly safe to use your gas hob to cook or for a short while to take the chill off if you use a little bit of common sense.

Richard

Most of us oldies have the above symptoms whether we are in the motorhome or not. :sad:

 

[wakk44]

Most of us oldies have the above symptoms whether we are in the motorhome or not. :sad:

:lol-053: @ Jim.