Generator talks

[wildebus]

Apart from an on-board charger - which is disconnected - the would be no AC loads you would not be aware of I would think (Compressor fridge isn't a 12V/240V auto-select? A few are). So strange it should be different on the different connection.

Interesting one. I'd like to plug my van Into your generator and see what is getting drawn as I change the charger settings


Doing the maths, your screenshot shows the charger running at 14.12V outputting 30A. That is 423.6W. the charger has a quoted maximum efficiency of 93%, so the input power will be at minimum 455W I make that to be. So a pair of those will at best actually exceed the generators continuous 900W output, so it does make sense that you can't run them both together set at 30A. Still don't see why one at 15A (so total load is just under 700W) would not work. Strange.
The next model up with the 1600W continuous definitely should be upto the job. I would suspect the issues would be around the generator and not the chargers, so on that basis if you bought that one and it didn't support around 1000W of load, not as described?
Any sellers have a shop where they can demonstrate one working ?

 

[st3v3]

The BMV shows charging at 36A

 

[wildebus]

The BMV shows charging at 36A

I'm looking at the IP22 screenshot. the BMV info doesn't show the true charging draw

 

[st3v3]

I'm looking at the IP22 screenshot. the BMV info doesn't show the true charging draw

It shows 36A into the battery, where is it coming from?

 

[Nabsim]

It shows 36A into the battery, where is it coming from?

That’s what puzzled me the other day when I was showing 42amps. Their will actually be more charge than the 36a shown as my compressor fridge was on, diesel heater was on and I was charging my iPad, probably 3 or 4 amps more than shown in the 36.The second Schaudt charger is in a box in one of the lockers and the one built in the EBL has the fuse pulled. If I connect the generator up and not the Victron charger I don’t have any charge apart from the little on solar showing on the BVM. I thought the chargers were putting out more than their rated output.

It is possible my compressor fridge has 240v Dave, I know it was an optional extra on the fridge but have always assumed it was only 12 volt. Can’t tell easily without pulling the fridge out.

 

[st3v3]

The genny not being able to supply, and the BMV saying more than 30A might suggest the charger is putting out more. Very strange though.

Have you zero'd the BMV current properly?

 

[Alien]

I don’t want a discussion on how bad generators are I just want to pick the brains of anyone with recent experience.
I have been running my Hyundai HY1000i for almost two years without any problems except having to replace the pull cord but that’s normal wear and tear and probably my starting technique. Before I bought my 2x30amp Victron chargers I asked Victron if my generator was capable of powering them, in spite of them saying yes it will only run one.
I want to run both so the generator doesn’t have to run as long/battery’s charge quicker so I have started looking for a suitable replacement that produces 2Kw. I am well aware that Honda are the best but they are well out of my pension range so wondering if others have reliable and relatively quiet generator recommendations. I have been looking at one that retails at £399 and have been close to clicking the buy button but this week someone has been parked near me with a new Clarke 2500 genny, I think they refer to it as the little atom or mighty atom, anyway they have had constant trouble and I ended up lending them mine as they had no heat or light. The Clarke was (I thought) a step up from what I was looking at as it retails around £560.
I am now thinking my best bet may be bite the bullet and go for the 2-2.2Kw Hyundai but I didn’t want to spend that much.
The one I was thinking about was the AG-Bohmer which sounds German but is Chinese as most are. I don’t want two stroke. Any recommendation for me to check out?

Hi
I use generators all the time and have both diesel and petrol. My regular petrol is a 3500 wolf electric start which has worked great for years. I think they are now around the £350 mark but they are well worth it. A 3500 gives about 2.8kw (gennys give roughly 80% of their stated max.)

 

[Nabsim]

The genny not being able to supply, and the BMV saying more than 30A might suggest the charger is putting out more. Very strange though.

Have you zero'd the BMV current properly?

Hi Steve, yes the bmv has been zeroed according to the little manual and posts on the Victron website. I haven’t done it for a while now but no reason to think I no manual intervention, everything else appears fine.

I am certain now that the chargers are giving a lot more than their rated output initially after yesterday. My battery bank was down in the 20% range when I started the genny up and I was discharging a couple of amps through but running in the van. Connected the charger then revs started rising. It sounded not far from flat out so I checked the app and almost 43a showing as charge input, just managed to open chargers app and it was showing 30a then it knocked out on overload. When I shut down and restarted the charge input was showing as 27a which later rose to 30a.

If it was just the bmv showing more charge I would maybe reset but because it is taking the genny out on current overload I am as sure as I can be with what gear I have that initially the charger is over on current so even if the genny was capable of holding 2x30a chargers it can’t manage with one or both going up around 45a.

 

[Nabsim]

Hi
I use generators all the time and have both diesel and petrol. My regular petrol is a 3500 wolf electric start which has worked great for years. I think they are now around the £350 mark but they are well worth it. A 3500 gives about 2.8kw (gennys give roughly 80% of their stated max.)

Thanks for that I will take a look, I don’t think I have come across this brand yet. The stated one may be too heavy for me to move around as I have a disability that means I struggle to move when carrying things, (well okay with a cup of coffee )

Edit: only had a quick look so far but only finding small Wolf generators in suitcase type. Are you meaning the open frame type?

 

[wildebus]

Hi Steve, yes the bmv has been zeroed according to the little manual and posts on the Victron website. I haven’t done it for a while now but no reason to think I no manual intervention, everything else appears fine.

I am certain now that the chargers are giving a lot more than their rated output initially after yesterday. My battery bank was down in the 20% range when I started the genny up and I was discharging a couple of amps through but running in the van. Connected the charger then revs started rising. It sounded not far from flat out so I checked the app and almost 43a showing as charge input, just managed to open chargers app and it was showing 30a then it knocked out on overload. When I shut down and restarted the charge input was showing as 27a which later rose to 30a.

If it was just the bmv showing more charge I would maybe reset but because it is taking the genny out on current overload I am as sure as I can be with what gear I have that initially the charger is over on current so even if the genny was capable of holding 2x30a chargers it can’t manage with one or both going up around 45a.

Does the app show on the IP22 a current ever greater than 30A? It don't know but it may be programmed to display no more than 30A as a max even when it puts more out? Be strange though as the smart B2B 30A will display over 30A quite often on initial charging.

I am sure that just like the B2B, the IP22 WILL output more than 30A when the voltage is lower than 14.4V (the actual maximum output being a set wattage, and watts = volts X amps, lower amps = higher current), and at 20% SOC the voltage will be low 13V for a while.

 

[Nabsim]

No the app for the charger never shows over 30a, don’t think it shows under that I have noticed either unless you change the output in settings. The app doesn’t really do much with regards to info, not like bvm or mppt.

 

[wildebus]

No the app for the charger never shows over 30a, don’t think it shows under that I have noticed either unless you change the output in settings. The app doesn’t really do much with regards to info, not like bvm or mppt.

I think in that case it is putting out more than it shows (which would be right and looks like a bug in the firmware or app to what is shown).

 

[Nabsim]

Definitely the Victron chargers not doing what they say they should. Can connect up and turn charger on and getting approx 45a showing on the BVM. Turn charger off then back on and it shows the 30a it is supposed to put out. I may have suspected a faulty charger but it does the same with both of them. Wouldn’t be so bad if the charger app actually showed what it was doing, it seems to be capped at 30a although the voltage will change correctly.

In one way I am not impressed as everyone says how good Victron stuff is but on the other hand if I get a big enough generator and I can make good use of 2 x 45a output.

Can one of you electrical gurus let me know what output genny I would need to handle up to 90a please. It’s nominal 12v genny but I have seen the charger showing between 13.8 and 14.4v when I have checked. Thank you

 

[wildebus]

Definitely the Victron chargers not doing what they say they should. Can connect up and turn charger on and getting approx 45a showing on the BVM. Turn charger off then back on and it shows the 30a it is supposed to put out. I may have suspected a faulty charger but it does the same with both of them. Wouldn’t be so bad if the charger app actually showed what it was doing, it seems to be capped at 30a although the voltage will change correctly.

In one way I am not impressed as everyone says how good Victron stuff is but on the other hand if I get a big enough generator and I can make good use of 2 x 45a output.

Can one of you electrical gurus let me know what output genny I would need to handle up to 90a please. It’s nominal 12v genny but I have seen the charger showing between 13.8 and 14.4v when I have checked. Thank you

When you are looking at curremnt capability (e.g. "handle upto 90a"), do remember to work on the INPUT current needed by the devices plugged in to deliver the output current you are after. e.g. AC/DC charger maybe 90% efficient, so to output 30A, you need minimum of 10% more power in.
Just mentioning this as I don't know if that 90A you quoted includes this overhead?

I might try a little experiment with the IP22 I have (20A version, not 30A) and see what that puts out according to the display and according to a Monitor and a clamp meter.

 

[wildebus]

Turned all the system off so just had minimal load. Solar was still on but only putting in abiout as much as remaining residual current so pretty well evened out.
Put my IP22 20A on the system and it reported 20A at 13.4V. Checked on the monitor and that was near as dammit 20A into the battery, so it does look like the current reported is right and also maxes out at the quoted current (I did think at lower voltages, such as the 13.4V above, the current went above the nominal maximum so as to deliver the overall maximum wattage).

 

[SquirrellCook]

Generator outputs can be horrible, both at high and low load. I wonder if your chargers behave the same on domestic mains? They just might be objecting to what your shoving in their bums!

 

[wildebus]

Generator outputs can be horrible, both at high and low load. I wonder if your chargers behave the same on domestic mains? They just might be objecting to what your shoving in their bums!

good point. When I have put a sine wave monitor on some inverters, even ones that are claimed to be Pure Sine Wave have been pretty messy, but some have been perfect (and better than grid).

 

[Nabsim]

Generator outputs can be horrible, both at high and low load. I wonder if your chargers behave the same on domestic mains? They just might be objecting to what your shoving in their bums!

The Hyundai I have displays output voltage along with revs, running hours etc. it’s only something I look at when there is a reason though so can’t answer. It is something I can have a look at next time I run it and the charger starts pushing out excess current

 

[SquirrellCook]

The Hyundai I have displays output voltage along with revs, running hours etc. it’s only something I look at when there is a reason though so can’t answer. It is something I can have a look at next time I run it and the charger starts pushing out excess current

I‘m guessing this is a smart generator, and if so it should put out a sine wave. Even if it’s a digital step wave. The victron chargers are I believe to be switched mode devices, And failing that some horrible filter is in the front end they will tolerate a range of voltages and even dc. That said, electrical noise from the generator could be messing with the regulation of the charger. As I typed earlier, trying it on domestic mains will disprove my theory.

 

[Nabsim]

I‘m guessing this is a smart generator, and if so it should put out a sine wave. Even if it’s a digital step wave. The victron chargers are I believe to be switched mode devices, And failing that some horrible filter is in the front end they will tolerate a range of voltages and even dc. That said, electrical noise from the generator could be messing with the regulation of the charger. As I typed earlier, trying it on domestic mains will disprove my theory.

Yes it is the latest type Inverter generator with pure sine wave output. Although a fair bit cheaper than a Honda it is not a cheap generator. If it was anything at the genny end would it clear turning charger off then on again? That’s how I get the charger back at 30a now when it’s putting out too much. Also once it’s putting out 30a it will continue as long as the genny runs, which is several hours usually.