Gas isolation valves?

[linkshouse]

I guess I already know the technically correct answer to this question but I would be interested to hear experienced views.

My normal arrangement with gas piping would be, gas regulator screwed directly to the gas canister, then a pigtail to a bulkhead through connector with a copper pipe to a manifold valve with a valve for each appliance, then a copper pipe from each valve to the respective appliance.

However in my current conversion the only gas appliance will be a hob, so....

Convention would be regulator on the canister > pigtail > bulkhead connector > copper pipe > isolation valve > copper pipe > appliance.

I know this is not strictly correct, but I’m toying with just taking the pigtail from the regulator directly to the hob.

My logic is: the “correct” way introduces five connection points, whereas the latter only has one (ignoring the regulator connection which will always be there).

Surely this presents less chance of a leak and would therefore be safer.

I should mention that the gas locker is with a couple of feet of the hob.

I welcome your views and discussion.

Thanks

Phill

 

[Millie Master]

Phill; I know that where gas is concerned, safety should always be of the most major concern.

My installation has the refillable cylinder in a sealed locker that has a drop out at the bottom of it, obviously in the top of the cylinder there is the usual on/off valve, the regulator and then a short length of flexible pipe to a secure wall mounted plate and joint where the pipe becomes copper, this then passes through the wall (fully sealed) to a 4 way manifold that has one exit blanked off and the other 3 passing to the hob, water heater and heater.

So far in 5 years of use, none of the joints, when tested, have shown any leaks and fingers crossed that will continue.

Phil

 

[linkshouse]

Phill; I know that where gas is concerned, safety should always be of the most major concern.

My installation has the refillable cylinder in a sealed locker that has a drop out at the bottom of it, obviously in the top of the cylinder there is the usual on/off valve, the regulator and then a short length of flexible pipe to a secure wall mounted plate and joint where the pipe becomes copper, this then passes through the wall (fully sealed) to a 4 way manifold that has one exit blanked off and the other 3 passing to the hob, water heater and heater.

So far in 5 years of use, none of the joints, when tested, have shown any leaks and fingers crossed that will continue.

Phil

Hi Phil,

Yes, that would be definitely be my approach too if I had more than one gas appliance. Indeed, that is how it was in the Hymer, of course, and how I did it on a previous conversion I did a few years back.

It is the fact that I only have one appliance in this conversion that is throwing me.

I know I should include the single isolation valve in between the gas regulator and the hob but it just feels counter intuitive.

I can isolate the gas with the valve on top of the cylinder (as I would when we drive anyway). Adding another valve into single short line feels as though it is doing it for doing its sake.

If I do go down the conventional route, and I suppose I probably will, I will of course do the usual drop test to check for gas tightness and don’t really expect to “spring” any leaks in the future.

However there is no getting away from the fact that every joint has a greater potential to leak than a solid pipe.

 

[Deleted member 4404]

I only use the hob for gas, so I have bottle top regulator with pigtail to isolating valve and 8mm cu to hob.

 

[linkshouse]

I only use the hob for gas, so I have bottle top regulator with pigtail to isolating valve and 8mm cu to hob.

I’m thinking that’s pretty much we’re I’ll end up to. It still just feels like one valve too many!

 

[Nabsim]

Gas locker should be completely sealed from interior of the van with drop outs. How often do you intend using the van, if not frequent would the camping cookers with gas canisters be an option?
I know regs changed to bulkhead regulators in motorhomes early 2000 but presumably it’s a loop hole if you build yourself?
One thing I have noticed on my recent renewal that I posted elsewhere, it states they will not pay put for fire damage if caused by cooking or heating unless fitted by Corgi or something else. I know this is balloons as Corgi doesn’t exist any more and most gas engineers aren’t qualified on lpg but it is something to think about maybe. I know Charlie has had people asking him about doing tests on providing certification of their home fitted systems so presumably it’s on the radar.

 

[SquirrellCook]

Murky is the same as yours Phil. Didn't make sense introducing extra joints.

BTW I don't expect it counts and I bet out of date, but I have a BOC gas safety certificate.

As for Insurance wanting as Corgi installation, I would say your insurance is not fit for purpose.
Last year our works insurance doubled for no reason and lots of hoops to jump through.
After making a few compliances we found others were not possible or proved to be stupid.
I contacted the insurers and demanded my money back as I was miss sold the policy.
Rather than pay me, the policy was altered to suit our building!!

I do wonder how many of these insurance companies would pay out if you claimed.

 

[linkshouse]

Gas locker should be completely sealed from interior of the van with drop outs. How often do you intend using the van, if not frequent would the camping cookers with gas canisters be an option?
I know regs changed to bulkhead regulators in motorhomes early 2000 but presumably it’s a loop hole if you build yourself?
One thing I have noticed on my recent renewal that I posted elsewhere, it states they will not pay put for fire damage if caused by cooking or heating unless fitted by Corgi or something else. I know this is balloons as Corgi doesn’t exist any more and most gas engineers aren’t qualified on lpg but it is something to think about maybe. I know Charlie has had people asking him about doing tests on providing certification of their home fitted systems so presumably it’s on the radar.

The bottles will be in a sealed locker with drop outs.

I already have the hob/sink combination from the Hymer, which I had just recently changed so it is all but brand new.

 

[linkshouse]

Murky is the same as yours Phil. Didn't make sense introducing extra joints.

BTW I don't expect it counts and I bet out of date, but I have a BOC gas safety certificate.

As for Insurance wanting as Corgi installation, I would say your insurance is not fit for purpose.
Last year our works insurance doubled for no reason and lots of hoops to jump through.
After making a few compliances we found others were not possible or proved to be stupid.
I contacted the insurers and demanded my money back as I was miss sold the policy.
Rather than pay me, the policy was altered to suit our building!!

I do wonder how many of these insurance companies would pay out if you claimed.

Well at least it’s reassuring that I’m not the only one thinking this way.

 

[Nabsim]

My gas and diesel heating were both done by people with correct certification so I am not worried about it but only just seen it mentioned. I do agree that most insurance companies don’t have a clue though but something must be prompting them to include it. I remember Charlie saying he had similar with his Hymer insurance and he took them to task over it.
I don’t think there is anything you are forced to comply with on a conversion, never seen anything mentioned. So long as any bodywork/external lights and stuff complies with construction and use regs if applicable, that was all we had to worry about modding cars I think. If you were changing chassis/body/engine then it may come under IVA but not for internal work and windows I doubt.
It is strange though that to build a trike you have to comply with all sorts of regs and then have it tested to get it registered but you can buy a van/horse box etc and virtually do what you want. You used to be able to just use a Reliant V5 but they stopped that years ago and started taking them off the road when they went for MOT.

 

[Nabsim]

Phil if you know the technically correct way why don’t you do it? At least you will know it is correct not only for you but anyone who may own it after you. Why cut corners?

 

[linkshouse]

Phil if you know the technically correct way why don’t you do it? At least you will know it is correct not only for you but anyone who may own it after you. Why cut corners?

I know it sound a tad supercilious, but because I think in this case it is wrong! I just wondered what other converters thought/did. You ar right about compliance though and the problem with that is that, that in its self is far from definitive.

Phill

 

[Squiffy]

The whole point of a multi valve manifold is so that if servicing a particular appliance is necessary or an appliance has a problem you can cut off gas supply while other appliances can continue to be used just as an electrical consumer unit allows other appliances to continue to work if a particular circuit has been tripped, so in reality if you are only supplying one unit with gas the on/off tap on the regulator is sufficient or indeed just removing the regulator from the bottle. Phil

P.s After all a camp stove or barbecue are typical of that sort of set up

 

[linkshouse]

The whole point of a multi valve manifold is so that if servicing a particular appliance is necessary or an appliance has a problem you can cut off gas supply while other appliances can continue to be used just as an electrical consumer unit allows other appliances to continue to work if a particular circuit has been tripped, so in reality if you are only supplying one unit with gas the on/off tap on the regulator is sufficient or indeed just removing the regulator from the bottle. Phil

P.s After all a camp stove or barbecue are typical of that sort of set up

That was exactly my thinking.

 

[Nabsim]

Thinking about it, in my motorhome all gas appliances except for hob and grill have been removed and replaced with other sources of fuel. I do have the piped manifold with a few blanks. Fairly easy for me to add gas devices if I want to but apart from that I don’t use it.

Long gone are the days I turned gas’s off except at tank valves when I refill with LPG. My bottles have inbuilt emergency shut off valves in event of a crash or pipe rupture and as I don’t have anything that runs when moving no worries when at fuel stations.

I think I would fit a manifold and pipework if I was building just for the fact it makes future options easier, (better to add things at build stage) for either yourself or future owners. I don’t suppose it matters for your own use though.