Frigid fiddling's

[Nabsim]

My fridges ice-box will keep icecubes and ice pops cold.
Bloody better do - I spent £170 on it!!

Thats why I said I would be using an inverter if/when mine dies Dave ha ha

I saw some posts earlier this year on motorhomer whee Ken was changing his fridge or someone else and they had to pay 2 grand!

 

[wildebus]

I don't understand why companies in UK/Europe are still fitting these horrendously priced fridges now compressor ones have been around for ages and proven to work better.
There is a definate trend in the US to go more electric-centric with Induction Hobs and Electric Fridges. Get Diesel Heating for Space and Water and you can loose the gas entirely

 

[Squiffy]

Dave you forget the present weight penalties of Using electric, to have the same untethered means to power a fridge and cooker the amount of battery power for the equivalent time with gas is greatly out weighed by the weight of equivalent stored battery power, yes it's a good idea and I'm sure that when gas becomes illegal to use and they finally produce batteries that not only weigh next to nothing but can be charged up by a vastly reduced in size per amps solar panel I would be the first to convert. However with even Lipo batteries weighing to the point that my wife couldn't lift one and the physical size of them let alone the price of them( You can buy two 3 way fridges for the same cost as two Lipo batteries)I think at this present point in time I'll stick with old reliable technology. Phil

 

[wildebus]

Dave you forget the present weight penalties of Using electric, to have the same untethered means to power a fridge and cooker the amount of battery power for the equivalent time with gas is greatly out weighed by the weight of equivalent stored battery power, yes it's a good idea and I'm sure that when gas becomes illegal to use and they finally produce batteries that not only weigh next to nothing but can be charged up by a vastly reduced in size per amps solar panel I would be the first to convert. However with even Lipo batteries weighing to the point that my wife couldn't lift one and the physical size of them let alone the price of them( You can buy two 3 way fridges for the same cost as two Lipo batteries)I think at this present point in time I'll stick with old reliable technology. Phil

nope, not forgetting at all.
and try running a power tool on gas

(and I don't think your wife needs to carry batteries around any more than she needs to carry gas cylinders around)

 

[Squiffy]

Dave I know you are a electric nutter but you know exactly what I mean and that I was using a metaphor in explaining weight, what ever you try to say about electrical power the equivalent power to weight ratio of gas to electric power is undeniable. As for using power tools, unless your building Noah's Ark or the equivalent out in no mans land, for simple repairs a simple 500w inverter has been sufficient for my needs, so not really a valid point.Phil

 

[wildebus]

Dave I know you are a electric nutter but you know exactly what I mean and that I was using a metaphor in explaining weight, what ever you try to say about electrical power the equivalent power to weight ratio of gas to electric power is undeniable. As for using power tools, unless your building Noah's Ark or the equivalent out in no mans land, for simple repairs a simple 500w inverter has been sufficient for my needs, so not really a valid point.Phil

you don't really need that much power at all to run a fridge. a 100Ah AGM is enough for a weekend away, especially with Solar. and a 100Ah LiFePO4 battery is not that heavy and would suffice for most peoples needs for a long time. The only time gas really has a genuine advantage is for full-timers or winter campers who like to stagnate.

PS. My heat gun for heat shrink is 1300W.

 

[Squiffy]

Ok Dave, I can see that the blinkers are on. Horses for courses, but the electrical race is far from won, . Phil

P.s. You do a lot of heat shrinking in your van, interesting.

 

[mistericeman]

I don't understand why companies in UK/Europe are still fitting these horrendously priced fridges now compressor ones have been around for ages and proven to work better.
There is a definate trend in the US to go more electric-centric with Induction Hobs and Electric Fridges. Get Diesel Heating for Space and Water and you can loose the gas entirely

Because most motorhome manufacturers think they are still building 1970s caravans....
I'm constantly amazed not to find gas lights and a sunken compartment in the floor as a cool box....

3 way fridges really are out of the ark and frankly are best chucked in the bin....

Tempremental at best....

Yet some people are so wedded the the idea its amazing.

 

[Nabsim]

I only use gas work cooking but I do prefer a gas hob even in a house.

my Lifepo4 100ah batterys Weigh 13kg each, the pair of them weigh the same as 1 of the Bosch 90ah I took out.

For me it was cost that stopped me going lithium earlier but I got deal and with VAT exemption it was doable. I know mist can’t do that though.

i know folks who cope fine buying a lorry battery from the scrap yard when they needs new one though

 

[Squiffy]

Because most motorhome manufacturers think they are still building 1970s caravans....
I'm constantly amazed not to find gas lights and a sunken compartment in the floor as a cool box....

3 way fridges really are out of the ark and frankly are best chucked in the bin....

Tempremental at best....

Yet some people are so wedded the the idea its amazing.

It's because the electric way is way too costly in weight as well as cash for a standard 3.5ton motorhome and the majority are now concentrating on that weight as grandfather 7.5ton is dying out with the likes of my generation. If it was a better idea believe me the business people in this trade we be on it before you could say light that cooker, .Phil

 

[SquirrellCook]

The point of this post was to make better use of your infrastructure. Better efficiency could mean less weight. At some point it would be nice to do a test with and without fans and I would hope to make fans of you all

 

[mistericeman]

It's because the electric way is way too costly in weight as well as cash for a standard 3.5ton motorhome and the majority are now concentrating on that weight as grandfather 7.5ton is dying out with the likes of my generation. If it was a better idea believe me the business people in this trade we be on it before you could say light that cooker, .Phil

Funny you never seem to get folks pulling out compressor fridges and going back to gas....

The only people that seem 'married' to absorbtion fridges are the ones that haven't yet had experience of compressor types.

Sorry BUT absorbtion type refrigeration (other than in heavy industrial process cooling) is old outdated tech....

 

[wildebus]

funnily enough the only time I have ever used a Gas fridge is when my mum bought one to use in the .....


House

 

[Squiffy]

Obviously your view is not held by the majority of commercial builders ahhh maybe they are just using up old stock, that's probably it, NOT. Get real and follow the experts in this subject and understand when that technology is completely viable the industry will kick into gear and use it without a doubt money has always shown the way since time began, like it or not. As I said before if industry thought it was at this point in time a better prospect it would convert, it's not happening yet, in time i6have no doubt it will but it's still in its infancy and full of troubles. While gas driven items including gas mantle lighting( Which some people pay mega money to have fitted by the way) is still the proven way to go, but fill your boots and pave the way good for you and others who are pioneering this sort of tech, when you and others have proved it
And the weight and costs have come to a sensible level I will revel in your fortune, metaphorically speaking of course.. Phil

 

[mistericeman]

Obviously your view is not held by the majority of commercial builders ahhh maybe they are just using up old stock, that's probably it, NOT. Get real and follow the experts in this subject and understand when that technology is completely viable the industry will kick into gear and use it without a doubt money has always shown the way since time began, like it or not. As I said before if industry thought it was at this point in time a better prospect it would convert, it's not happening yet, in time i6have no doubt it will but it's still in its infancy and full of troubles. While gas driven items including gas mantle lighting( Which some people pay mega money to have fitted by the way) is still the proven way to go, but fill your boots and pave the way good for you and others who are pioneering this sort of tech, when you and others have proved it
And the weight and costs have come to a sensible level I will revel in your fortune, metaphorically speaking of course.. Phil

Motorhome manufacturers STILL fit silly little relays for charging and halogen bulbs for lights...

Change happens very slowly in some industries....

I'm not really bothered about what folks think about what I do conversion wise (I long ago got bored with trying to convince people that there are many ways to skin a cat)
BUT as a refrigeration engineer I can say that absorbtion ammonia based refrigeration on a none industrial basis IS ancient and outdated tech....

Motorhome manufacturers fit absorbtion fridges because its what they have always done AND frankly most motorhomes spend their time plugged into the mains...
Hence them still fitting small batteries and slow take up of energy efficient tech...

Most are frankly little more than a caravan nailed onto the back of a chassis cab.

 

[Squiffy]

I'm not really bothered about what folks think about what I do conversion wise (I long ago got bored with trying to convince people that there are many ways to skin a cat)

Doesn't sound that way from this angle.

Anyway those that do go off grid like me for weeks at a time the current situation with electric appliances just would not stand up, plus my wife just loves to use the oven for baking and roast dinners maybe others dont have such luxury when away like that but we do and no way would an electric oven cope off a bank of Lipo batteries, so until gas is illegal or runs out I'll as I say stick with being out dated but please keep me informed of the progress in electrifications most interesting developments. Phil

 

[wildebus]

It is like a lot of things ... manufacturers make things because customer *think* that is what they need because
1) that is what they have always had
2) that is what is 'traditional' and caravaning is seen as a traditional activity

So if they didn't have those dated options, potential customers could go elsewhere.

The vast majority of Motorhomers don't go off-grid for weeks and most probably don't use an oven much - or even HAVE an oven to use anyway.

 

[mistericeman]

Doesn't sound that way from this angle.

Anyway those that do go off grid like me for weeks at a time the current situation with electric appliances just would not stand up, plus my wife just loves to use the oven for baking and roast dinners maybe others dont have such luxury when away like that but we do and no way would an electric oven cope off a bank of Lipo batteries, so until gas is illegal or runs out I'll as I say stick with being out dated but please keep me informed of the progress in electrifications most interesting developments. Phil

I didn't say electric was ALL answers cooking wise (though we did fine in the transit with microwave/kettle/slow cooker and toaster all powered by electric from solar or split charger).

BUT absorbtion refrigeration is frankly past it... Its too finicky...
Not level enough
Wind in wrong direction
Too warm
Etc etc....
I'll repeat again.... I'm not really bothered how you keep stuff cool or heat or whatever.
Just most folks that won't entertain the idea of compressor fridges have never actually been down the road of trying it...
Hence my comment about folks going over to compressor fridges NOT going back to absorbtion...
They are simply just a much better solution....

I've no intention of ripping the gas cooker out of the motorhome...
HOWEVER I will be skipping the absorbtion fridge in favour of a compressor unit AND the carver heater to replace it with a eberspacher d2 again.

 

[Nabsim]

My thought are that motorhome manufacturers will fit whatever is the cheapest option for them that gives the biggest profit.
Once someone has invested a lot of money in a motorhome they feel obliged to replace with the same in case it affects the resale value.
Most folks on here have a different mindset and will fit what works best for them. I have had caravans in the past with 3 way fridges and they worked okay but I always used sites, we had no 12 volt systems in the caravans, trailer tent and tents we used.we had fun, coped okay and put up with any limitation.
Now I have used a compressor fridge for a couple of years there is no way I personally would replace with a 3 way. It’s an under counter size, 110litre with a nice size freezer compartment. First year we had it Caz accidentally turned the temp setting full up and everything in the fridge froze solid so I suspect you may be able to use it as a freezer should you so wish.
I do take a big hit on power using it, the fridge alone is 48 amps per 24 hours. I accept that hit, I am full time and the fridge means I can go 2 weeks before shops when just me and the dogs.
I have actually reduced weight now since fitting Lifepo4 with total battery bank weighing the same as the 90ah taken out. Lifepo4 needs to come down more but it’s heading the right way. Some manufacturers are fitting lithium now and some are fitting compressor fridges. Not sure why they charge more when doing that though, money grabbing I guess but it’s a business and anything is worth what someone will pay.
If I bought a vehicle I would not swap out to change for gas or electric so long as it worked okay.

 

[SquirrellCook]

I have actually reduced weight now since fitting Lifepo4 with total battery bank weighing the same as the 90ah taken out.

I'm slowly being put off buying 4 T105's, but Lifepo prices keep bringing me back.