Fitting front day time running lights.... any tips please?

[Millie Master]

I am in the process of doing a couple of mods to my 2008 Renault Master 100 Dci.

The main mod is going to be the fitting of a couple of day time running lights that will come on automatically with the ignition when the engine is running.

I am looking for function and efficiency rather than blingy design and would like to use circular ones that I plan to mount into the blanked out spot/fog light appatures in the front bumper.

I can't believe the difference in prices of these lights, they seem to be either as cheap as chips or over £100 with not very much in between, so does any kind sole have any links to anyone who can supply some good quality lights at a reasonable price?

Many thanks

Phil

 

[wildebus]

Send a photo of the front end of your van to see what kind of options may be possible.

I fitted a nice set of DRLs to my T5 that fitted where the fog lights usually would be. Very pleased with those. Might well fit yours as well. I'll see if there is a post I have on them

 

[wildebus]

These are the ones I fitted - https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/LED-Day-...-ea71-4226-8f9c-43010ecc2c46&epid=14018197083
They may fit yours? I was impressed with the quality.

 

[trevskoda]

I have these,can ither be on eng switch or sep/switch for parking up at night as they use almost no power.
Just go ebay 12v led button lamps .

 

[Millie Master]

These are the ones I fitted - https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/LED-Day-...-ea71-4226-8f9c-43010ecc2c46&epid=14018197083
They may fit yours? I was impressed with the quality.

Thanks they look perfect, mind you they are more than somewhat expensive in my view.
Phil

 

[wildebus]

Thanks they look perfect, mind you they are more than somewhat expensive in my view.
Phil

I think they are a bit more than when I bought them (March 2016) but for my application they were ideal as they were sized specifically for the foglight hole so were, IMO, worth paying a premium for.
This is the Kit as supplied
DRLs%20-%202 by David, on Flickr
Something you do want to look out for if you want "proper" DRLs is their working logic i.e. On when headlights off and engine running; Off when headlights off and/or engine off (note it is ENGINE running/off and not Ignition on/off). You can get kits that work like this directly, or you can adapt the more basic kits to work that way.

For the kit above, fitted in foglight position as mentioned - The right is the original, the left has the hole drilled and the DRL mount fitted
image_8 by David, on Flickr

The Lights fitted to the mounts
image_7 by David, on Flickr

And all back in place (FWIW, I also replaced the Headlights with twin reflector ones)
image_5 by David, on Flickr

 

[Millie Master]

I think they are a bit more than when I bought them (March 2016) but for my application they were ideal as they were sized specifically for the foglight hole so were, IMO, worth paying a premium for.

Interesting read and they do look like a very good piece of kit.

However, with regards to the fitment of DRL's what if any is the technical legal question with regards to their fitment?

I have been intending to fit them so that they are wired to come on when the ignition is fully on with the engine running and because of their position so far away from the headlights, they will always remain on even when the headlights are on. Would this be legally acceptable in your opinion Dave?

Phil

 

[Squiffy]

If you don't want them for bling Phil, it then must fall into the category of safety in which case I would humbly suggest that you save money and time and continue as I do and drive with the headlights dipped. For 42 years now I have always had Volvos (Secondhand ones ) and have always followed their way of thinking with other vehicles,of driving with dipped headlights as a permanent safety feature. Years ago I remember constantly being advised by some of the older public that my lights were on, laughable really seeing that I am now that older public , but it would seem now that either folk don't have your interests at heart or more likely just an excepted phenomenon. Phil

 

[wildebus]

Interesting read and they do look like a very good piece of kit.

However, with regards to the fitment of DRL's what if any is the technical legal question with regards to their fitment?

I have been intending to fit them so that they are wired to come on when the ignition is fully on with the engine running and because of their position so far away from the headlights, they will always remain on even when the headlights are on. Would this be legally acceptable in your opinion Dave?

Phil

Well .... The law is interesting as because they are after-market/retro-fit on a vehicle that is not required to have DRLs, you don't have to obey the actual DRL rules as long as the lighting meets the general rules for lighting so you have a freer hand There is a section in the regulations about front lighting in the document on the (probably) DVLA site about use and construction (think it is called something like that?).
The ones I fitted have an option - which I used - to have the lights stay on but dim when the headlights are on (I think going by many new cars on the road that is also acceptable on "official" DRLs as well, so goes along with your wishes pretty much).
The dimming feature rather then just staying full brightness I like as it gives that extra bit of visibility without being OTT. The downside of having the DRLs in the foglight position and in use when headlights are on is getting flashed by some drivers who think you are driving with foglights on on a clear night. Them dimming gives you that halfway-house....

FWIW, the kit I bought for the V5 has a control unit that has a VSR type device and a connection to the headlight so it is enabled when the engine is running (voltage rises and turns on VSR) and goes off (or dims) when the headlights are on and never work with the ignition off (need that bit to avoid the lights coming on if the starter battery is being charged as that looks like engine running as far as a VSR is concerned).
It is quite sophisticated because of the various scenarios required and that will have bumped the price up no doubt.

I did have a RING kit I fitted to my RAV4 and that looked good but it would come on and off randomly for a few hours after I'd been for a drive. I didn't get round to investigating it before the car got stolen, but I think it was the voltage sensing unit getting confused with the battery voltage slowly decaying after the charging during driving?

 

[Millie Master]

Well .... The law is interesting as because they are after-market/retro-fit on a vehicle that is not required to have DRLs, you don't have to obey the actual DRL rules

Thanks a zillion for that information Dave it made for some very interesting reading indeed.

Phil

 

[Millie Master]

If you don't want them for bling Phil, it then must fall into the category of safety in which case I would humbly suggest that you save money and time and continue as I do and drive with the headlights dipped.. Phil

Yes Phil, I know about you always driving with your headlights on dip, indeed I have tried doing this on several occasions and even these days I get rather fed up with being flashed even though my lights are correctly adjusted.

Phil

 

[wildebus]

I know there are different schools of thought about DRLs and why not just use Dipped Headlights. My take would be that if dipped headlights were just as good and DRLs are just bling, why was the legislation that mandated the use of permanent Dipped Lights not introduced Europe-wide? Why was the "dim-dip" legislation nullified very shortly after it was introduced in the UK? These changes are not usually made to order to add more 'bling' to vehicles.
There is a significant difference between dimmed headlights and DRLs. The difference - and primary purpose - between the two is very clear - headlights are fitted for the driver to see where he is going; DRLs are fitted for others to see the car. So I will continue to like DRLs over Dipped Headlights (and have been wanted to fit them on my LT for ages but not got round to it).
Another advantage of DRLs over using Dipped Headlights is longeveity and power - Standard headlamp bulbs used all the time will fail much more rapidly - DRLs tend to be LEDs with a far longer life and a lot less power, so are better on the pocket as well as less power on the alternator (less than 1A vs 10A)

On my RAV4 forum there are distinct for and against factions on DRLs - and one 'against' reason is from a Biker, saying the advantage of motorbikes being seen more clearly is eroded with DRLs as it means more vehicles can be seen more clearly (?).
Why making more vehicles safer is a negative I can't get my head round but everyone is entitled to their views and respected for them even if they don't make sense to someone else.

 

[Squiffy]

Not criticising DRL'S Dave just suggesting that they are a little pointless if you use dipped headlights anyway. Sweden has had this rule for decades and have one of one of the lowest road accident rates in Europe so there must be something to be said about it. In Poland you legally have to use dipped headlightsin inclement weather and trust me the police there up hold the law with a vengeance and folk there now tend to leave dipped headlights on all the time now. As for longevity of halogen and tungsten all my Volvo's that I have owned I've maybe had to change a headlight bulb 3 or 4 times in forty odd years and the Ducato 2.8 that I owned for 10 years I didn't have to change a headlight bulb ever, the Ducato 2.3 that I have owned for 5 years now I replaced the n/s bulb once so I really don't feel that it's an excessive burn out rate. Phil

P.s.
As a Biker for 50years I can get my head round your bikers statement as in the past bikers with a single dipped headlight on was very noticable from a distance as it would during daylight hours be the only vehicle on the road with a light visible and most folk would immediately think "Bike" but unfortunately in today's road conditions that advantage has been greatly reduced by as I stated in my previous post become an excepted "Phenomenon" and people have now become comatose to the point of not seeing, so in effect making it supposedly safer for cars has made it more dangerous for motorcycles. Having said that I still advocate the use of dipped Headlights/DRL's , but I now ride my bike with full beam during daylight hours as this tends to capture the attention of car drivers.

 

[Squiffy]

By the way talking of Ducato 2.3 headlights, those that do have to change headlight bulbs it is far faster to remove the whole headlight unit than fiddle around attempting to do it with the headlight in situ.Phil

 

[SquirrellCook]

Headlights! I hate modern headlights on most cars and some lorries. I was told many years ago when the BSI were still active that any light bleeding over the cut off pattern would result in an MOT failure. I doubt if many new vehicles would pass this. With the advent of the LED daytime running lights on some vehicles it is very distinctive and not blinding. Shame it can't be said for all. I have when possible upgraded the front side lights to super bright LED's with good results. On "Murky" no such luck, so I fitted LED strips that fill with water. They still give that white LED light, but from tests we've carried out not blinding. I doubt if they will last long due to the water, if I got more I'd pot them in epoxy or something. These are connected to my side lights. I do like the idea of voltage sensing relays though.

 

[trevskoda]

Just remember that al vh have to have front fog lights,80mm from edge and below bumper,these are not running day lights,day lamps must be fitted else where and have a defused scater ,i see many cars driving around with fog lights on which is not the same as running lights.
Front fogs must only come on in dip beam front ,running lights can and must be on a sep switch if self fitted,cars/vans with built in r/lights in h/lamps are ok if from new,MOT here very strict and will turn you down if not done right.

 

[wildebus]

DRLs can be fitted in the position you describe as being reserved for Foglights. No issue with that at all.
It is annoying the amount of people who go on about people driving with their foglights on who don't know the difference between the two. Question is ... Are the headlights on when the "foglights" are on? If not, they are not foglights. (Not saying that there are not those who DO drive with foglights on for no reason, but it is not as common as many think it is with the supposed evidence of their own eyes).

You can actually get kits that are DRLs and Foglight combinations in the same fitting and switch between the two (just like you can get those LED strips that are DRLs normally but turn into yellow indicator strips)

 

[wildebus]

Headlights! I hate modern headlights on most cars and some lorries. I was told many years ago when the BSI were still active that any light bleeding over the cut off pattern would result in an MOT failure. I doubt if many new vehicles would pass this. With the advent of the LED daytime running lights on some vehicles it is very distinctive and not blinding. Shame it can't be said for all. I have when possible upgraded the front side lights to super bright LED's with good results. On "Murky" no such luck, so I fitted LED strips that fill with water. They still give that white LED light, but from tests we've carried out not blinding. I doubt if they will last long due to the water, if I got more I'd pot them in epoxy or something. These are connected to my side lights. I do like the idea of voltage sensing relays though.

The TEC3M VSR commonly used for trailer connections is ideal for controlling DRL type lighting. More than enough power-rating, cheap and reliable and easy to fit.

 

[wildebus]

There is currently a 10% discount code on eBay on - I think - everything, so if looking to buy a kit from an eBay seller, now might be a good time
I was just looking again at DRL kits as this thread reminded me for myself.
Not seen any round kits like I fitted to my old VW T5, but quite a few decent looking LED Strip Kits such as this - https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/OSRAM-LE...022655&hash=item3ab93294d6:g:O-MAAOSwwRBcrFoi

 

[wildebus]

Just saw a round kit in fact. Not cheap at £150 (!) but it is a dual function DRL and Foglight combo that could be handy if the choice would have been to fit either DRLs OR Foglights in the corner location?
Osram LED LEDFOG102 12/24V LEDriving DRL Daytime Running Fog Lights Kit Twin

Normally £150 but £15 off this weekend (ps. seller nothing to do with me). This one has a broken clip somewhere so is reduced apparently. Another Brand New one of the same model is listed at £197!