First things first

[Acoachcalledruby]

Hi all, like most of us we can get a bit bogged down in the DVLA department regarding what the vehicle is etc.
Now i have a volvo b6r midi coach.
its a 1998 only 4 years younger than myself.
I just cant get my head around what order to do things in regarding dvla.
Now i have removed all seats bar 6 including the drivers.
Do i apply to change the tax class now… or leave it sorn until the conversion is complete.
would i do that by sending the v5 and the current mot slip away.
Regarding Dvla list of convertable vehicles. Coach is not one of them. Weighing in at 12.5t its not classed as light goods. Can i get it changed to minibus or leave it to become a private hgv. (Still applying to the instal regs of a motorhome) can i just turn up to a mot centre and book it in as a hgv not a coach? (It has 11 months mot)
Think i have over frazzled my brain a bit by reading into the deep dark closest that is DVLA.
Any guidance would be appreciated.

 

[SquirrellCook]

First thing, do you have a license to drive it?

 

[Acoachcalledruby]

First thing, do you have a license to drive it?

Yes i drive hgv up to 44t. So that part is covered.

 

[Greggbear67]

If you finish the conversion then take it to a HGV mot centre, they should test it as it is presented, ie as a motorhome, which should be class 4 regardless of weight....

 

[Deleted member 12559]

When you finish the conversion and the vehicle is registered as Body Type : Motor Caravan, and
Taxation Class : Private Heavy Goods Class 4 then you won't find it possible these days to get
an MOT at a VOSA Test Station. Which means finding a Class 4 Tester (normally cars and <3.5 tonnes)
able to deal with 12.5 tonnes may prove difficult.

The place that Class 4 Tests my M/H lift it on a 5.6 tonne max. rated 4 poster, GVW is 6.6 tonnes
I assure them that it actually weighs 4.4 tonnes!

If you use your vehicle to run around whilst converting it, why not just register it as a PHGV
with MOT Class 7 not that you need an MOT for 11 months. But if you do then Class 7 is issued
at a VOSA Test centre. VED will be a fair bit more than the £165 that you'll pay as a Motor Caravan,
insurance may prove to be more than as a Motor Home, although it won't presumably be used for
commercial or business use? Even so I do know some prefer to not go to the bother of reclassifying to
Motor Caravan.

If you SORN it and UNSORN, then you can do that online easy enough (I'm informed!), then no need to
insure or pay VED or MOT. You'll have to arrange to renew all these before you put it back on the road again of
course, MOT test appointment has to be prearranged if it has run out.

When it comes to vehicle reclassification and processes, I've not found any source on the M/home
forums that has all the bumf sorted, mainly due to the DVLA themselves not having definitive answers
either, a lot seems to depend on the nouse of the desk jockey of the day in Swansea handling your
particular application.

 

[Greggbear67]

Your 12.5 ton vehicle will become a class 4 when converted. My 5.6ton Iveco goes to a HGV mot station, where it is given a class 4 test. It is driven over a HGV size inspection pit, so no lifting it at all. If your vehicle is used privately it will become a PHGV taxation class, which is £165 per year, regardless of size/weight. As a motor caravan you will not need an operators license. The mot station will test your vehicle as presented, is if you convert it, they will test it as a motorhome regardless of what the logbook says. Once it is a motorhome you will not need to use a tachograph either....

 

[Greggbear67]

The DVLA has now issued a list of conditions for successful reclassification, both a checklist of requirements, & a form that needs all boxes ticking to qualify. Also there is a list of existing body types that will be considered for conversion. If your present body type is not on the official list the DVLA will not consider your application no matter how good or comprehensive your conversion is....

 

[SquirrellCook]

I would still object to a bus or coach being classed as a goods vehicle without type approval. This is why I have left Murky as a s/d bus coach. It’s never been a problem with road tax or insurance. Generally even foreign customs just laugh after asking to see our passengers.

 

[Deleted member 12559]

For years I used to take my 6.6tonne to the nearest Government VOSA(DVSA) HGV test station for a Class 4.
Then some years ago they stopped carrying out Class 4. I was informed this was universal perhaps incorrectly, but the next nearest VOSA Station would have been too impractical to attend so academic in any case. The only then practical option was the Town Council's Test Centre, Class 4 only & with a pit, then it also closed, and contracted out to the private sector.

When my crate was PHGV and unconverted VED was a fair bit more than when it was reclassified as
Motor Caravan. I was surprised at the anomaly when it dropped £s. However this didn't occur automatically, I was paying at the higher rate even though the van was now a Motor Caravan. When I became aware I informed the DVLA, they apologised, but only partially reimbursed me.

The pic. shows Tax Disc as PRIVATE HGV @ £82.50 for 6 months in '97 this was quite a bit more than
6 months as PHGV Motorcaravan, hence my reimbursement. Perhaps things have changed.
Why only 6 months, well in those days many of us didn't tax for +6 months spent abroad hehe.

The Licencing bods of whatever nomenclature at the time & for donkey's years have had a checklist of just what is required for a vehicle to qualify as Motorhome/camper. Fixed bed table opening window etc.
Probably a little more discretion in the past, but possibly as a result of chancers taking the piss
they've had to be more cautionary.

 

[SquirrellCook]

I used to tax my 608d as a motor caravan at the post office, until I got reclassified as a phgv. Cost of the road tax never changed. Yes I used to have mine tested at a vosa station.

 

[Deleted member 12559]

Common enough to uprate a M/home from say 3500kg. to 3850kg. or 4200kg.
the unsuspecting owners nearly all remark on the VED reducing from £245 to £165,
where's the logic in this......gawd knows, but who's going to argue? Only the bloke with
a sub 3500kg maybe
I can't find a functioning DVSA formerly VOSA HGV testing centre anywhere to date, maybe
I just ain't looking hard enough. Plenty of ATFs for HGVs but most if any carry out Class 4 Testing.
Maybe they reckon a kia picanto or similar narrow car will fall into the pit!
I'm afraid it's the four poster for me!

 

[Acoachcalledruby]

The DVLA has now issued a list of conditions for successful reclassification, both a checklist of requirements, & a form that needs all boxes ticking to qualify. Also there is a list of existing body types that will be considered for conversion. If your present body type is not on the official list the DVLA will not consider your application no matter how good or comprehensive your conversion is....

I found this form last night.
things like the secondary door. I highly dount the fire exit on a coach counts

 

[Greggbear67]

I found this form last night.
things like the secondary door. I highly dount the fire exit on a coach counts

As long as its a door it should count....

 

[Acoachcalledruby]

Your 12.5 ton vehicle will become a class 4 when converted. My 5.6ton Iveco goes to a HGV mot station, where it is given a class 4 test. It is driven over a HGV size inspection pit, so no lifting it at all. If your vehicle is used privately it will become a PHGV taxation class, which is £165 per year, regardless of size/weight. As a motor caravan you will not need an operators license. The mot station will test your vehicle as presented, is if you convert it, they will test it as a motorhome regardless of what the logbook says. Once it is a motorhome you will not need to use a tachograph either....

Thanks for this.
I have read almost identical messages on other forums.
i think i may leave it as a phgv. I have the licence and it saves having to jump through the new hurdles set out by dvla in there list of applicable mods.
You mention tacho. As a non commercial vehicle now and for ever more. Even as a phgv this will not need the tacho disc to be used.

 

[Acoachcalledruby]

As long as its a door it should count....

Photoshop in a fancy staircase.
Cheers for your help in this matter.

 

[Deleted member 12559]

The 'hurdles' put forward by the DVLA to warrant registering as a Motor Caravan should be weighed against the hurdles that 'may' be found if registering as a PHGV eg

Insurance ; If Reg. as M/Caravan, cover will often include conversion contents, and you will
probably be able to value the vehicle higher. Premiums generally cheaper.

Breakdown Recovery ; Again as a Reg. M/Caravan rates are cheaper than as PHGV. Although
if over 7.5tonnes then it doesn't matter whether registered as PHGV or PHGV M/Caravan it's Commercial classification only and more expensive. I've never found any M/Home
Recovery Insurance for over 7.5tonnes.

Camping Club Membership ; I believe some ask for Registration specific description,
apparently they don't encourage what they perceive is a commercial vehicle.

Ferries and Chunnel ; There's a specific Motor Caravan category, cheaper fares than
Commercial.

Obviously it's possible to not declare a non compliance to all or some of these requirements,
and possibly wing it. But complying with the DVLA conversion requirements isn't all that
onerous and might be preferable, and I believe why most of us bother to Register as
PHGV Motor Caravan.

 

[SquirrellCook]

I just saw on a clean air zone site motorhomes being mentioned along side class M1 specialist vehicle (coach and bus conversions over 3.5T)
Again PHGV is still HGV you want to be LGV
As for insurance I pay about £200 plus £100 for the recovery bit. They know it's a coach conversion and are not bothered. The MOT states Motorhome and that seems to be enough.

 

[Acoachcalledruby]

I just saw on a clean air zone site motorhomes being mentioned along side class M1 specialist vehicle (coach and bus conversions over 3.5T)
Again PHGV is still HGV you want to be LGV
As for insurance I pay about £200 plus £100 for the recovery bit. They know it's a coach conversion and are not bothered. The MOT states Motorhome and that seems to be enough.

Mine is insured in the same way. They know its a coach body but a conversion in progress inside.
lgv only applies to vehicles 3.5t to 7.5t and i dont see that coach getting any lighter. I mean my lunch box weighs a bit.
i have £90 recovery i did ask regarding size and weight they said its fine.
so its covered in that area just got to get it re classed. Hopefully like a previous post they will test it as seen. Wether it be class 4 or 7.

 

[Acoachcalledruby]

The 'hurdles' put forward by the DVLA to warrant registering as a Motor Caravan should be weighed against the hurdles that 'may' be found if registering as a PHGV eg

Insurance ; If Reg. as M/Caravan, cover will often include conversion contents, and you will
probably be able to value the vehicle higher. Premiums generally cheaper.

Breakdown Recovery ; Again as a Reg. M/Caravan rates are cheaper than as PHGV. Although
if over 7.5tonnes then it doesn't matter whether registered as PHGV or PHGV M/Caravan it's Commercial classification only and more expensive. I've never found any M/Home
Recovery Insurance for over 7.5tonnes.

Camping Club Membership ; I believe some ask for Registration specific description,
apparently they don't encourage what they perceive is a commercial vehicle.

Ferries and Chunnel ; There's a specific Motor Caravan category, cheaper fares than
Commercial.

Obviously it's possible to not declare a non compliance to all or some of these requirements,
and possibly wing it. But complying with the DVLA conversion requirements isn't all that
onerous and might be preferable, and I believe why most of us bother to Register as
PHGV Motor Caravan.

Insurance was not so bad tbh. I found a company that does laid up cover and contents for conversions.
recovery is sorted too. They seemed happy enough with what the vehicle is and whats happening.
Now i will be complying to what i can as the rules are there for a reason but only issue i really saw is i wont be able to weight wise get it down to lgv as thats 3.5 to 7.5t
But you mentioned phgv motorhome… is that a class i never knew about. I just pop that on the blue slip in the v5 and provide mot and pictures etc? That changes tax class too?

 

[Deleted member 12559]

I just saw on a clean air zone site motorhomes being mentioned along side class M1 specialist vehicle (coach and bus conversions over 3.5T)
Again PHGV is still HGV you want to be LGV
As for insurance I pay about £200 plus £100 for the recovery bit. They know it's a coach conversion and are not bothered. The MOT states Motorhome and that seems to be enough.

Is the policy actually a motorhome or motor caravan policy or is it a private motor car policy.
Motorhome/ motorcaravan policies are generally private motor car policies with specific
clauses added applying specifically to M/Caravan requirements.

I'd say £100 for Recovery Insurance is VGV for Money. Especially if providing European Cover
for over 3.5tonnes, plus up to 7.5m length, extra bonus if up to 25 years vehicle age allowed. Nationwide FlexPlus Account is one of the few sources through Brittania Rescue that provide that
level of service for £13 a month plus a few other perks, travel insurance etc.

Insurance companies will often accept what you state on a proposal form may be another thing
on how they see things in event of a claim, would they go to the bother of looking at the
V5c and start arguing the toss.... who knows.