Electrics

coolasluck

Not entirely sure what you want to do, but if I understand you correctly can you not just put a 16A commando type socket (as used for EHU) on the output of the hard wired inverter and plug that into the EHU point on the outside of the van, that way the inverter output and mains supply can never be connected together at the same time. Not pretty but just an idea.



I have a 16 amp female socket that could be wired to the fuse board (commando type) downstairs.
Anything wrong with wiring this to the board and then fit 2 male sockets 1 for the inverter side and 1 for the hookup side?
I could then only have one or the other inputs at a time as jim stated.?

This is a good site especially for things technical,this is what these forums are all about:):)


As i say all i need really is to have shore power via inverter ,the shore side of it is only really for whilst i have my house as we aim to be fulltiming next year we wont be using it again as we dont do camp sites.
 
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Tow Itch

I have a 16 amp female socket that could be wired to the fuse board (commando type) downstairs.
Anything wrong with wiring this to the board and then fit 2 male sockets 1 for the inverter side and 1 for the hookup side?
I could then only have one or the other inputs at a time as jim stated.?

This is a good site especially for things technical,this is what these forums are all about:):)


As i say all i need really is to have shore power via inverter ,the shore side of it is only really for whilst i have my house as we aim to be fulltiming next year we wont be using it again as we dont do camp sites.

Hello

I'm not a professional and there will be those who know so much more than me and at this point I don't know enough to say conclusively what is safe but if I were doing this I'd have a good read and or ask people who I know would give me sound advice.
With all due respect to the forum here might not be the place to ask and/or you might not get the sort of close and specific guidance you need. i.e. I think you might be best with someone listening to what you want and saying to you very prescriptively "Do X,Y and Z. use A wiring here and B wiring there cutting tails in this form."
You will have to be selective in who you ask this will not be everyday fayre for lots of sparkies.
I'm not saying that you are incapable of doing this, I don't know you and have no idea what you are capable of but you do at this point need more of a grasp of what is happening also an increased knowledge of terminology as you will be involved in a less than common situation. You need to know what you are asking and you need to know precisely what others are telling you.

e.g. This may sound petty but
I have a 16 amp female socket that could be wired to the fuse board (commando type) downstairs.
Anything wrong with wiring this to the board and then fit 2 male sockets 1 for the inverter side and 1 for the hookup side?
I could then only have one or the other inputs at a time as jim stated.?
Plugs are male sockets are female. It may be a bit opposite to normal logic when you plug a free socket into a fixed plug when you connect the cable to the van but that is a simple detail.
I think you are saying can I plug the van (with one plug only) into one of two possible sockets one from the EHU or one from the inverter. This sounds OK as far as it goes but am I sure what you mean or that you follow exactly what I'm saying? No I'm not.

To look at things completely differently What are you trying to achieve? You say you only want 240V for limited periods but want to wire in a full ring main and whatever else your distribution unit supplies.
Most people make do with very temporary circuits from inverters. A plug with an extension and a few sockets unless you are looking at a boat or an off line house.
Say you use the full capacity of the 1,500W inverter at 230V that is about 6.5 amp at 230v or even without allowing for losses 20 times that 130 amp at 12V. Without looking it up I've no idea if the 35mm [SUP]2[/SUP] is good for that but what sort of battery system do you have? I don't know the safe rates of power consumption from a battery but I'm expecting several hundred if not a thousand amp hours of full on traction batteries for this sort of thing. Are you planning to run the engine to help supply power when using the inverter? Do you have a large capacity alternator?
Even at 500w you are pulling 45 amp or so.
Again off the top of my head if you have fused the 130 amp circuit bang on 130 amp the fuse might take 200 amp for 6 hours. Though the inverter will allow initial surge up to 3,000W so you have to allow for that. I'd imagine and I'd get professional help that you are looking at 160amp fusing (So 270amp for 1.5 hrs before fuses blow) Fuses and cuircuit brakers are used in series in low voltage circuits (see navvers comment here http://www.wildcamping.co.uk/forums...03-leisure-battery-charging-3.html#post400871 ) Read the link to Sterling Power earlier in the thread for a worse case senario (though I disagree with sterling on the fusing or cut outs on this)
You have a really massive capacity for fire with high amp low voltage circuits. I cannot overstress the possibility for fire with all 12V circuits but high current ones are to be very carefully installed.

How are you going to plug these inverters in? A 1,500w inverter will need to be hardwired with large physical hand connections or solenoid switching. The 500w will consume less power in using for a small load but connecting and swapping with the 1,500W unit will be a real drag unless you design a system for off or only one inverter switched on switching relays/solenoids. I'd tend to just use the 1,500W inverter unless efficiency is important but then it sounds like the 500W inverter would be running for quite some time.

What is this power for? I'd recommend direct 12V for TVs and computers. Does the wife or self desperately need a hair drier or are we running a full domestic washing machine?

My thoughts are far more towards a suitcase generator or possibly a gas powered 2,500w generator for less than £200.00 more than your inverter is costing.

This all sounds more boat than motorhome. If you have a massive solar array and you are heading somewhere sunny and fancy air con or some other odd reason then it may all make sense but I'd be drawn to a generator for occasional use and I'd never not have the ability to accept EHU you never know when it may be convenient and the facility costs all but nothing.

Sorry if it all seems a bit negative.

I expect a Durite inverter to be of higher quality but see what ideas you get from this. Notice the shears.

[video=youtube;5LRycfkKqLw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5LRycfkKqLw[/video]
 

coolasluck

Thanks for taking the time to respond to my thread.


QUOTE=Tow Itch;404831]
e.g. This may sound petty but Plugs are male sockets are female. It may be a bit opposite to normal logic when you plug a free socket into a fixed plug when you connect the cable to the van but that is a simple detail.
I think you are saying can I plug the van (with one plug only) into one of two possible sockets one from the EHU or one from the inverter. This sounds OK as far as it goes but am I sure what you mean or that you follow exactly what I'm saying? No I'm not.


Yes i get what you mean unfortunately i always seem to be in a rush when i do these postings lol

What i should have said or asked was is it ok to install to the board a 16 amp socket where from i can plug either EHU or Inverter 16 amp plug into the socket.This would mean that only one or the other would work making the job safe.

We are going to start fulltiming from next year and in so doing as i already had the EHU point fitted i decided to run a number of sockets around the coach from the fusebox,this is fine for when EHU is available or if we ended up on some awful campsite.This is all in and working fine.
My main idea has been to primarily use an inverter(s) to power these sockets as it would be nice to use the power that my panals are producing.I have 720 watts of solar on my roof and a 675 amp trojan traction battery pack.

QUOTE=Tow Itch;404831]
How are you going to plug these inverters in? A 1,500w inverter will need to be hardwired with large physical hand connections or solenoid switching. The 500w will consume less power in using for a small load but connecting and swapping with the 1,500W unit will be a real drag unless you design a system for off or only one inverter switched on switching relays/solenoids. I'd tend to just use the 1,500W inverter unless efficiency is important but then it sounds like the 500W inverter would be running for quite some time.
What is this power for? I'd recommend direct 12V for TVs and computers. Does the wife or self desperately need a hair drier or are we running a full domestic washing machine?

My thoughts have been to have 2 inverters which i can plug either one of into the socket at the fuse board.The 500 watt inverter is to be used for the majority of needs on 230 volt whilst the 15000 watt inverter would purely be used for the wifes hairdryer (yes i know,certainly not my hair!!) so this would soley be used for this purpose.I do have 3 x12 volt sockets fitted also and as this is going to be our home my intention has been to cater for as much as i can.I do not intend to leave any of the inverters permanently switched on as some do but are prepared to switch on at the inverter and then to plug in the required inverter plug (nuisance or not) when required.My intention has always been to use 12volt appliances as much as is possible.My fridge is a 12 volt compressor and has been happily running over the last 6 weeks on 12 volt power my instinct is to keep it all 12 volts wherever i can but,i do,like to have my options i have a really great computer monitor that i would like to take with us to enjoy our films on i would need an inverter for this and various chargers and with the power i should have this should not be a problem unless the solar set up is not working as it should be. If the solar is working properly i should never need a generator and aim to never own one as not only should i ever need it but they are noisy bloody things that take up room:lol-053:

Thanks for the links.
 

Tow Itch

Dear Mr Coolasluck

My apologies. This is now making much more sense.

Hopefully you will appreciate that the difference between someone who has in essence a good idea and someone who is **** for brains is so close it is hard to tell. Also to be honest both can co exist in the same project.
This is far above my pay grade.
You might need someone who has a serious system design capability. Ironically part of this was going to be a question to navver on my own forum (damned rude {Sorry Dandycampers} a forum I moderate on). I've avoided phrasing the question (one of the next parts of the link I provided) because It was a big question and I was worn out.
I can see where you are going. Though you need someone to spec the system. Cable runs fuse ratings, circuit breaker ratings, wiring methodology etc. For simple circuits I will do with electric as I do with gas I will do it myself but at this point I think you could do with some professional input.

For example as you have reiterated about "pluging" the inverters in. 150Amp appliances are not plugged in. Lots of work has to occur to facilitate connections that don't burn up in arcs.
 

Firefox

I don't understand what you are trying to do. Your inverter should be wired direct to your 12v battery bank. It has its own fuses and cut outs. It's totally separate from your other 240v systems and fusebox RCD's etc. If you want an extra layer of protection on your inverter, you can put an RCD plug between the appliance and the inverter socket?
 

coolasluck

I don't understand what you are trying to do. Your inverter should be wired direct to your 12v battery bank. It has its own fuses and cut outs. It's totally separate from your other 240v systems and fusebox RCD's etc. If you want an extra layer of protection on your inverter, you can put an RCD plug between the appliance and the inverter socket?


Hi firefox,
I am trying to use my inverter to run the 240v sockets and do this in a safe manner.
One idea is to use interchanging plugs for a 16 amp socket that is connected to the fuseboard,a plug on the end of an inverter and a plug on the incoming Ecu,this way no accidents could happen between ecu and inverter.
My vehicle is to be our home and not just a camper.We are aiming to always be off grid.
 

Firefox

[FONT=arial, sans-serif]I kind of see what you are doing now... but 240v system with RCD and some sockets is always useful? You may visit a friends place and be offered a hook up, or you can plug in a genny to your hook up inlet and all your 240 sockets are now working. That's what I have done sometimes when solar fails. Or just run the alternator.

I use solar panels and rarely use the hook up now. But I still find it useful the odd occasion when I travel around :)

( @ others It used to be
[/FONT] Institution[FONT=arial, sans-serif] of Electrical Engineers (IEE) - same for Civils and Mechancials, but now Institution of Engineering and Technology (IET) I think )


[/FONT]
 

coolasluck

[FONT=arial, sans-serif]I kind of see what you are doing now... but 240v system with RCD and some sockets is always useful? You may visit a friends place and be offered a hook up, or you can plug in a genny to your hook up inlet and all your 240 sockets are now working. That's what I have done sometimes when solar fails. Or just run the alternator.

I use solar panels and rarely use the hook up now. But I still find it useful the odd occasion when I travel around :)

( @ others It used to be
[/FONT] Institution[FONT=arial, sans-serif] of Electrical Engineers (IEE) - same for Civils and Mechancials, but now Institution of Engineering and Technology (IET) I think )


[/FONT]




I have a fuse board fitted with the usual mcb and rcd fitted and all works fine on E.C.U,i always test the rcd before using.
With all the panals on my roof (7) you can understand why i have no intention of staying on sites.
 

Alf

Electrical Work

OK. To be safe why not bring the mains hook up lead to a Blue 16A socket connect a short lead to the fusebox with a 16A plug in normal mode the plug will be in the socket to give EHU. Wire the inverter to a 16A socket when you need to swap the plugs over.

It would be far easier and more safer to wire some additional sockets via a small fuse board and use these for the inverter


OR fit a 30a changeover switch to do the job for you please remember any accidents and you may find your insurance void unless you get an Electrical Certificate for whatever you do

Alf



I have a fuse board fitted with the usual mcb and rcd fitted and all works fine on E.C.U,i always test the rcd before using.
With all the panals on my roof (7) you can understand why i have no intention of staying on sites.
 

coolasluck

OK. To be safe why not bring the mains hook up lead to a Blue 16A socket connect a short lead to the fusebox with a 16A plug in normal mode the plug will be in the socket to give EHU. Wire the inverter to a 16A socket when you need to swap the plugs over.




Hi Alf :)
This is the way i have decided to go using my durite 500 watt inverter.
Although she doesnt know it yet i am not bothering with a 1500 watt inverter as well which will mean that the wifes hairdryer is going:).
Looking online you can get what is called an air styler which i have heard good things about.
Could be a good compromise as i can get one of these that can work off 300 or 500 watts.
I am going to carefully mention the idea tonight.:help:I dont fancy buying a 1500 watt inverter that would solely be used for her hairdryer.
And at that i shall start a new thread.....
 

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