Electrical Installation - a bit of market research .....

[SquirrellCook]

I still think your best bet is to market them from your stand at shows. A bit of thought and your display could be electrifying.

 

[Deleted member 12559]

And I have no interest in the furniture

thing is ... all the electric kits out there and supplied are very old fashioned even now.
I supply kits and setups with contemporary equipment to mostly VW customers but what is missing is the "plug & play" aspect. THAT is the aspect I am looking at and clearly not being understood.

Sounds like the typical converter wouldn't understand either I'll just offer this option as an extra feature on the cabling kits I already supply

But a self converter has to consider the project as a whole. The electrical component positioning and wiring runs/looms are
dependent on where the furniture etc. goes, figuring it out and DIYing is after all the point of the exercise and the errr fun!

I imagine most DIY converters would prefer tried and tested if a little outmoded equipment over the very latest perhaps
often unnecessarily overcomplex, usually pricier stuff. We're after all only only dealing with Motorhome requirements hardly
attempting to glean the last % of energy as maybe on a Mars mission

 

[wildebus]

But a self converter has to consider the project as a whole. The electrical component positioning and wiring runs/looms are
dependent on where the furniture etc. goes, figuring it out and DIYing is after all the point of the exercise and the errr fun!

I imagine most DIY converters would prefer tried and tested if a little outmoded equipment over the very latest perhaps
often unnecessarily overcomplex, usually pricier stuff. We're after all only only dealing with Motorhome requirements hardly
attempting to glean the last % of energy as maybe on a Mars mission

my experience of talking to many people is different.

 

[Deleted member 12559]

I find most of the people I talk to don't know the difference between an Amp and a Volt,
even plenty of self builders. So long as the TV and the lights in the van are likely to keep going
that'll do, meh.

 

[wildebus]

I find most of the people I talk to don't know the difference between an Amp and a Volt,
even plenty of self builders. So long as the TV and the lights in the van are likely to keep going
that'll do, meh.

and I educate them and provide them with something better. not some dross from the 80's

 

[Deleted member 12559]

No not from the eighties just not the latest, or unproven.
The Reimo 91 catalogue is merely showing that even then there were suppliers to self converters
that were selling more or less complete conversion 'packages' all proven to work together. Some of
that electrical gear was quite sophisticated for it's day, everything in the context of it's time 'dross'
indeed
I wonder how much of today's campervan electronics are going to last five years, let alone 30.
I'm certainly hoping some of my gear was well q.c. specced by Sterling from it's Taiwanese maker.

 

[Squiffy]

I can't help but feel Dave that you asked for market research into an idea you have in your mind, you have asked a dedicated lot of self builders and answers that you have had do not seem to fit with your vision, or that we don't understand what your attempting. The trouble is that unless you make something that is completely idiot proof that does not require any thought as to what you join to whatever and does not require cutting and shortening or lengthening or any sense of knowing anything about 12v/240v theory, at which point, yes you would be on to a winner. However if you self build you have to know at least a little about wiring in 12v or 240 AC or as said before you should not be attempting to self build or you should be either consulting someone who does or as a lot do ask questions on a site such as this and hope that you get a constructive answer. In short your idea as I see it is a great prospect but it has as some have suggested been attempted before, OK they have various items included that you deem outmoded making them expensive but regardless if you purchase these modules or anything that you produce I don't hesitate to say the purchaser/self builders would still have to have a modicum of electrical understanding, Phil

 

[wildebus]

I think the concept has been misunderstood and mixed up with things like building furniture and talking about vehicle looms. both totally out of context.
but that is fine. It means that if I were to do this I would have to make sure that the purpose is understood clearly.

 

[Squiffy]

Following on from the Consumer Unit I built (https://motorhomebuilder.com/threads/smart-consumer-unit.67276/) and some recent work carried out, I am convinced there is a market in the self-build campervan area for a much more "plug and play" electrics installation which is possible for the self-builder to do themselves without needing detailed electrical knowledge or employing a fitter and just a matter of plugging in ready-fitted connections together (if you can fit a plug, you can fit the kit).

But am I just convincing myself of this? thoughts please?

I went back and re read your original post Dave don't think I mis understood what you were asking. But I think I understand this correctly

"But am I just convincing myself of this? thoughts please?"

 

[Deleted member 12559]

I think the concept has been misunderstood and mixed up with things like building furniture and talking about vehicle looms. both totally out of context.
but that is fine. It means that if I were to do this I would have to make sure that the purpose is understood clearly.

I understand your questioning the practicalities of putting your electrical combined panel'concept' into reality.
Seemed liked you had answered most of them yourself.
I broadened the subject (moving it on) to show that years ago firms were successfully making campervan
combined packages such as PMUs and integrating them into various DIY complete conversion designs
all within the abilities of the average DIY converter.
But...... perhaps Lord Sugar could post in, he knows how to sell even Amstrad dross

 

[trevskoda]

trying to locate a nice 12V distribution fusebox that looks integrated is tricky. BCA (think they are called BCA? Bailey use them) are the only company I know of who make a combo 240V/12V unit and it looks kind of ok. The Sargent units look a lot nicer, but are pricey as they are full of stuff you don't really want to use so works out too expensive.

Just mount all on a flat alloy panel pre wired and outlets/inlets marked.

 

[SquirrellCook]

Tough audience David

 

[wildebus]

Tough audience David

Think some people haven't moved onto the 21st century..... reimo flatpacks.... PMS systems ... set voltage power supplys as "chargers"... Oh dear


On a related subject, it is annoying that most brand new motorhomes come with such dated systems. The control panel is by far the most modern looking thing normally - as that all the customer sees - pretty displays.... And what it controls is at least 10 years out of date and really not fit for purpose any longer.
And then people doing self-builds think if they use the same systems as fitted to these branded motorhomes they are keeping up with the newest designs.

 

[Squiffy]

I'm a great believer in innovation Dave, I love new ways to do things that improve one's life. But and there is always a but, I am also a believer in "If its not broke, don't try and fix it". I can see that if you want to self build the latest all electrically run top of the range conversion/coach built, then yes you do need a far more updated system. Until that time though the old tried and tested will obviously suffice for the majority. But like electric vehicles, many folk are saying that this is the future but in reality and for all practicle purposes they are being put on a pedestal that can barely support their weight (Pun intended). Phil

 

[wildebus]

And that is why people complain about batteries not lasting for very long when away, and having to be replaced within a couple of year.
Because the systems installed ARE broke and they need fixing.

each to their own .....

 

[Sprinter 1 cup]

The always a but thingy, is so last century, Shirley can do it. LOL
1 in 100 can do it !. 99 others bodge it.
You on to a winner Dave.

 

[Squiffy]

As I said I will be the first to congratulate you Dave and say I knew of that bloke. BUT if it's broke why have I not suffered over the last 30years of all these woes that you say are happening plus the fact that we in normal times travel the continent from France through to Greece and all the other connected countries, without hookup . You asked for market research, I acted as Devils advocate it would seem that others on the site are either disinterested or happy with their lot as there has only been less than a handful of contributors to the thread. Phil

P.s. Maybe that comment will inspire more folk to give their views of my offerings (Good or bad) or at least offer their view.

 

[Deleted member 12559]

Moi a luddite? O contrer Rodney. I drive a near new Lexus, ride a modern albeit small Yamaha motorbike, but for the
motorhome I hang on to my 27 years old van, updating as I feel is desirable if not actually absolutely necessary.
But then the important thing to me is that the motorhome is a means to an end, not and end in itself.
I still maintain that when carrying out a new conversion, it pays to keep things as simple as possible, if for example
you only speaka de one lingo it can be a real pain explaining a problem let alone getting it fixed.

I have travelled overseas 5 months every year for decades {4 legal months this year), so have some experience of
what is important, at least as pertains to my own circumstances. and frankly as has already been mentioned the 'don't fix
what isn't broken' is a good maxim for me. Or at least leave it until any benefit gained by updating, really is worth it
all things considered.

Over recent years I've changed to LED lighting, LED TV. USB charge points just about everywhere, B2B charger,
Sterling 12v to 24v maintenance charger etc. The energy savings mean that I haven't had to increase the solar
panel acreage, battery quota, or uprate the original alternator. My solar panels are c.20 years old, at the time
top rated German Saturn Technology 17% efficient, nowadays I believe cheap Chinese are 20% efficient. Would
I update? nah if I need more power then just add a Chinese panel I have roof spare roof space. 3% just isn't
enough to be make the upgrade viable in any sense.

On another personally experienced practical note I can say that the L/A Halfords 4xstarter batteries I used (I had no choice)
as leisure batts. lasted a decade and provided the power I needed, but suffice to say I rarely let them drop below 12.2v or so.
I'm quite sure there are some newbies out there unwittingly f**k their standard batteries dead at 2 years, and doubtless
there are still more out there, that would find it no trouble to kill a brace of LiPo HyPo batteries deader than dead within 4 years!!

Bloody 4G gone awol, likely to be 3 posts uploaded, technology eh bah humbug

 

[mistericeman]

Moi a luddite? O contrer Rodney. I drive a new Lexus, ride a modern albeit small Yamaha motorbike, but for the
motorhome I hang on to my 27 years old van, updating as I feel is desirable if not actually absolutely necessary.
But then the important thing to me is that the motorhome is a means to an end, not and end in itself.
I still maintain that when carrying out a new conversion, it pays to keep things as simple as possible, if for example
you only speaka de one lingo it can be a real pain explaining a problem let alone getting it fixed.

I have travelled overseas 5 months every year for decades {4 legal months this year), so have some experience of
what is important, at least as pertains to my own circumstances. and frankly as has already been mentioned the 'don't fix
what isn't broken' is a good maxim for me. Or at least leave it until any benefit gained by updating, really is worth it
all things considered.

Over recent years I've changed to LED lighting, LED TV. USB charge points just about everywhere, B2B charger,
Sterling 12v to 24v maintenance charger etc. The energy savings mean that I haven't had to increase the solar
panel acreage, battery quota, or uprate the original alternator. My solar panels are c.20 years old, at the time
top rated German Saturn Technology 17% efficient, nowadays I believe cheap Chinese are 20% efficient. Would
I update? nah if I need more power then just add a Chinese panel I have roof spare roof space. 3% just isn't
enough to be make the upgrade viable in any sense.

On another personally experienced practical note I can say that the L/A Halfords 4xstarter batteries I used (I had no choice)
as leisure batts. lasted a decade and provided the power I needed, but suffice to say I rarely let them drop below 12.2v or so.
I'm quite sure there are some newbies out there unwittingly f**k their standard batteries dead at 2 years, and doubtless
there are still more out there, that would find it no trouble to kill a brace of LiPo HyPo batteries deader than dead within 4 years!!

Bloody 4G gone awol, likely to be 3 posts uploaded, technology eh bah humbug

The 3 x 100ah Lucas batteries I fitted to the transit camper I built are still capable of doing useful work 5 plus years after I bought and fitted them....
2 x 100a basic solar panels and a £20 pwm charge regulator + a £40 durite vsr

Plus the occasional charge via a 7 stage smart charger in the depths of winter....

Hammered the batteries as all our cooking was electric via a 3000w mod sine inverter.....

My point is....

There is no one size fits all solution.... Folks needs/budget etc all play a part along with every day being a school day.

 

[trevskoda]

I'm a great believer in innovation Dave, I love new ways to do things that improve one's life. But and there is always a but, I am also a believer in "If its not broke, don't try and fix it". I can see that if you want to self build the latest all electrically run top of the range conversion/coach built, then yes you do need a far more updated system. Until that time though the old tried and tested will obviously suffice for the majority. But like electric vehicles, many folk are saying that this is the future but in reality and for all practicle purposes they are being put on a pedestal that can barely support their weight (Pun intended). Phil

Not broke dont fix it, well should I order myFord model T, well it did the job, but.