Electrical Installation - a bit of market research .....

[wildebus]

Following on from the Consumer Unit I built (https://motorhomebuilder.com/threads/smart-consumer-unit.67276/) and some recent work carried out, I am convinced there is a market in the self-build campervan area for a much more "plug and play" electrics installation which is possible for the self-builder to do themselves without needing detailed electrical knowledge or employing a fitter and just a matter of plugging in ready-fitted connections together (if you can fit a plug, you can fit the kit).

But am I just convincing myself of this? thoughts please?

 

[SquirrellCook]

I think you are on the right track David. From experience though, you will need to market it and it a big way. Next you will have problems being able to meet demand. You make investments to scale things up, or not. Meanwhile every cowboy and opportunist will be making them too.

There is a solution, but not tried. Don't push them too hard. No magazine advertising. Only operate at a low level. Take a gamble and make a dozen or so of each type and market at shows. Never say you have run out, you didn't bring all your stock.
I'm plagued with knock rubbish. Often more expensive than our work. Remember people are stupid and believe the rubbish they are fed. Along those lines some posh flyers to go with them. I know you wouldn't, but it doesn't even need to be true to sell.

 

[wildebus]

What I really need is a YouTube channel and then everyone will believe every word

 

[Sprinter 1 cup]

And put a low voltage cut off or not. I think Your our new tesla bloky

 

[Squiffy]

The Sargents modular consumer units are as about plug and play as you can get I feel. The problem is that what ever you have or do you will require at least a modicum of electrical skill coloured wire and specific plug and socket shapes would go along way but you will still have the connecting up to the correct article and in the correct way, to make it idiot proof would be very labour intensive on the part of the producer, and let's face it nothing is idiot proof. Phil

 

[wildebus]

The Sargents modular consumer units are as about plug and play as you can get I feel. The problem is that what ever you have or do you will require at least a modicum of electrical skill coloured wire and specific plug and socket shapes would go along way but you will still have the connecting up to the correct article and in the correct way, to make it idiot proof would be very labour intensive on the part of the producer, and let's face it nothing is idiot proof. Phil

Yes indeed - and it is the connecting up part which I am talking about addressing

Is it very labour intensive? well it takes time (not sure about the "very" part though?), but people maybe willing to spend the money to have a ready to fit loom as a) they are not confident to make the cables or b) they want a quicker to fit build.

PS. The Sargent units are a good example of a plug and play unit in the supply area, but they are significantly flawed in the charging features and capabilities. That is an area which can be improved substantionally.

PPS. It is well know that you can make a product idiot-proof But then someone else goes on to improve on the idiots, so back to square one

 

[Squiffy]

Agreed Dave, but trouble is that the wiring colours of various appliances vary considerably I.e. Pos could be Red, Red+Black, Brown,Grey,Grey+white or any other combination of colour depending on who produced it. Then you have the neg colours not to mention signal colours of electronic items like gas lpg gauges,thermostats,thermometers, ignition wires etc etc. As there is no international agreement to colour (Color) for electrical/electronic wiring,even though there is meant to be. I have had hair pulling days trying to sort out the comparatively easy task of motorcycle wiring and motor vehicle wiring. So I commend your optimistic view and potential commercial gain by your idea, but I feel that with things as they stand it would be VERY labour/mentally intensive
To obtain a fool proof plug and play kit. But should you succeed would certainly be a boon to self builders and put you in the clover monetarily. Phil.

P.s. And I would be the first to say I knew of the bloke that thought of it.

 

[SquirrellCook]

Agreed Dave, but trouble is that the wiring colours of various appliances vary considerably I.e. Pos could be Red, Red+Black, Brown,Grey,Grey+white or any other combination of colour depending on who produced it. Then you have the neg colours not to mention signal colours of electronic items like gas lpg gauges,thermostats,thermometers, ignition wires etc etc. As there is no international agreement to colour (Color) for electrical/electronic wiring,even though there is meant to be. I have had hair pulling days trying to sort out the comparatively easy task of motorcycle wiring and motor vehicle wiring. So I commend your optimistic view and potential commercial gain by your idea, but I feel that with things as they stand it would be VERY labour/mentally intensive
To obtain a fool proof plug and play kit. But should you succeed would certainly be a boon to self builders and put you in the clover monetarily. Phil.

P.s. And I would be the first to say I knew of the bloke that thought of it.

I think limiting the items that it will be compatible with may be useful, especially if you can supply them to.

 

[wildebus]

Whilst I was talking about plug & play, you have to assume a certain level of competence is evident for someone doing an installation.

Also, if there is one area of non-standard wiring colours around, it is manufacturers vehicle wiring without a doubt - but aftermarket wiring for vehicles ARE a lot more standardised in fact. For example, with radios, Yellow is always permenant +12V, Red is Ignition, Black is GND, Blue is Remote Power out, Orange is illumination, and the vaious speakers in the four corners are all standard colours. Doesn't matter where you buy the wiring from, that is what is used.

 

[Squiffy]

True, but radios have been standardised for inclusion in many makes of vehicle and so vehicle manufacturers over the last ten years or so have had to change their looms to suit but as for the rest of the loom they have gone as they please. As Squirrell has mentioned the only way really is to choose what appliances are to be fitted to your plug and play and personally change the various plugs on the appliances to fit your loom and sell the whole thing as a kit, though this could end up either an expensive kit to purchase or a labour of love to the seller. Phil

 

[wildebus]

True, but radios have been standardised for inclusion in many makes of vehicle and so vehicle manufacturers over the last ten years or so have had to change their looms to suit but as for the rest of the loom they have gone as they please. As Squirrell has mentioned the only way really is to choose what appliances are to be fitted to your plug and play and personally change the various plugs on the appliances to fit your loom and sell the whole thing as a kit, though this could end up either an expensive kit to purchase or a labour of love to the seller. Phil

sorry, but your radio comment is not really correct and missing the point. OEM Radios are still custom made for specific manufacturers.
It is only in the Aftermarket world where there is standardisation of fitting connections and colours - and this has been the case for a lot longer than 10 years.
Rest of the loom in a vehicle? don't give a damn. not my area of interest.

In the Camper conversion world (which is the aftermarket world I am interested in), 95% of devices that are bought for conversions have standardised connections - typically spade terminals. The more esoteric devices would need - like anything unusual - be wired up in a suitable way, and in this case using simple toolless connections (that are supplied) and the only thing that the installer would need to know is what is +ve and what is -ve.
If they can't work that out, they shouldn't be converting a van.

 

[Squiffy]

(If they can't work that out, they shouldn't be converting a van.)
Precisely Dave, they will still sit and scratch their heads and come onto sites like this and ask questions, not a bad thing to do if you have no idea. As for the radio colour coding for fitted radios, vehicle manufacturers have had a universal code as I stated originally for at least 10 years or so, it was the third party manufacturer of radios which inspired the vehicle manufacturers to follow suit, as previously to this each vehicle producer used their own colour codes and multi plugs for their fitted as standard radios. However good luck with your project. Phil

P.s.
As for the spade connection, then as I said in the beginning Sargents already sell kits that have all the wiring and connectors for main,solar and 12volt appliances

 

[trevskoda]

I would think a simple setup on a alloy panel with solar reg numax or other charger and relay for split charge, not forgetting a good led fuse box with a block output stage all numbered for things like lights pumps tv and extras, I had been thinking along the same lines.

 

[wildebus]

(If they can't work that out, they shouldn't be converting a van.)
Precisely Dave, they will still sit and scratch their heads and come onto sites like this and ask questions, not a bad thing to do if you have no idea. As for the radio colour coding for fitted radios, vehicle manufacturers have had a universal code as I stated originally for at least 10 years or so, it was the third party manufacturer of radios which inspired the vehicle manufacturers to follow suit, as previously to this each vehicle producer used their own colour codes and multi plugs for their fitted as standard radios. However good luck with your project. Phil

P.s.
As for the spade connection, then as I said in the beginning Sargents already sell kits that have all the wiring and connectors for main,solar and 12volt appliances

Sorry Phil, you are just missing the point. Sargent have nice looking units with wiring but they are out of date. the charger is not up to the job. the split charge is not up to the job. but apart from that, yup, very nice and the wiring is good.

And the radio stuff. No, you are just wrong. The only universal codes vehicle manufacturers have for their radios is their own one. But you have your opinion on that. I have mine. and that is fine.

 

[wildebus]

I would think a simple setup on a alloy panel with solar reg numax or other charger and relay for split charge, not forgetting a good led fuse box with a block output stage all numbered for things like lights pumps tv and extras, I had been thinking along the same lines.

trying to locate a nice 12V distribution fusebox that looks integrated is tricky. BCA (think they are called BCA? Bailey use them) are the only company I know of who make a combo 240V/12V unit and it looks kind of ok. The Sargent units look a lot nicer, but are pricey as they are full of stuff you don't really want to use so works out too expensive.

 

[Sprinter 1 cup]

It the spegti behind them that i fixed I used 7 core wire and 3 sections. And 3 power bands units Front middle and back of van. And 2 30amp twin wire From fuse box = 12blade fuses.
Same 7 core wire in all sections . red black blue brown yellow green and white as test. in yellow case/ shef so you can see it. That helps red and black r lights, 5amp 1 12v 2 5volts, blue and brown and blue r 10amps pumps . yellow and green sockets 7.5 amps at 5 volt out put = usbx 3 scockets.
Constantly on = 30 amp wire fridge section 2 30amp to tvsection 1 and 1 empty port.
And still working on 12 spade fuse box
None of my fuses are blue all orange or red on yellow wire main fuse box thats located above drivers seat so I can get to it 1 wire from battery but it is thick as it takes100 amps.
This is my first attempt. Will change in future.

 

[Sprinter 1 cup]

If you don't understand above post , u should not do electricity

 

[Deleted member 12559]

German firms such as Reimo have been producing self build kits (easily customisable) mainly oriented
for the VW Van Range, for donkey's years. Their some 300 page catalogues gives wide range of compatible
and or matching components, including electrical, furniture, furnishings, decor and advice/tips on installation.
The usual plus result for a reasonably competent DIYer, is a professional looking van, a minus aspect perhaps,
is that it's not cheap.

Pics from the '91 catalogue. 30 years ago, yet their conversions today still cut the aesthetic mustard, the electrical gear
of course looks antiquated, but at least you could solder a dry joint by the roadside. I'd like to see someone solder a fried
chip? on a Victron!

 

[wildebus]

And I have no interest in the furniture

thing is ... all the electric kits out there and supplied are very old fashioned even now.
I supply kits and setups with contemporary equipment to mostly VW customers but what is missing is the "plug & play" aspect. THAT is the aspect I am looking at and clearly not being understood.

Sounds like the typical converter wouldn't understand either I'll just offer this option as an extra feature on the cabling kits I already supply

 

[SquirrellCook]

Pork, David