DVSA checks
- Thread starter wildebus
- Start date
.Phil
SquirrellCook
Forum Member
Itās the customs checks that make me laugh Most visits Murky has had, is personal. Theyād just like to see how it was converted. I was once asked where were my passengers. Understandable as itās taxation class is bus/coach.
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Squiffy
Forum Member
Up until this year Squirrel we go abroad 2 or 3 times a year from different ports and on return I don't think I've ever seen a motor home pulled into the inspection building, I've only ever been asked if I've checked for illegal immigrants after being parked up close to the ferry ports, though one time years ago they asked to look in the shower room on our way out of Britain. Phil
SquirrellCook
Forum Member
I had a hunt this morning and I'm unable to find the publication at the moment. I've seen it twice, but never when I've looked for it.
What kept on appearing was references to horse boxes, and I guess if you had to prove the point you were legal I would sight them.
The main theme seems to be for 3.5 - 7.5 tonne vehicles:- If the contents are yours and you don't intended to commercially sell the said contents there is no problem with what you carry providing it's safe.
So if you set out with your horse (mechanical horse/motorbike) to earn money your in the world of Tachograph, CPC licence and other fun.
A bus/coach is a whole other world. Being class M2 or M3 it is a type approved passenger carrying vehicle. Having PHGV or PLGV forced upon you I expect is breaking the law, as it's saying you are type approved as a goods vehicle. N class. I think in EU countries after converting to a motorhome you would be reclassed as M1 (special vehicle) to overcome the fact your too heavy for the M1 class. Then your taxation class would be PLG.
Oh just spotted this.
" 3 Private HGV Heavy goods vehicles used unladen, privately or for driver training purposes are licensed in the āPrivate HGVā tax class. If a vehicle is to be used laden for commercial purposes the Private HGV class does not apply and it must be taxed in the HGV class. "
The first link is to above and the others are of general interest.
wildebus
Forum Member
there is a lot of ambiguity in the whole area of motoring in the UK.
When I looked at this a couple of years ago, from memory it was pretty messy on the cans and can'ts when you can have PHGV or or, need an operators license or not, or need a tacho or not.
Plus there are other aspects that also impact under 3.5t e.g. If you are taking your Motorhome to a car boot sale to sell stuff, you are using as a commercial vehicle so you are limited to van speeds. if you are driving to a car boot sale to look around for fun, you can drive at car speeds.
What if you are going to look for stuff to resell? probably commercial reason for travel so van speeds? stupid rules.
So you are carrying a pillow in your vehicle that weighs 2kg.
if you are taking it to a post office to post to a customer- can't go above 60MPH.
If it is being posted as a gift, you can go 70MPH.
If you have a 4.0t PHGV Motorhome and it is a gift, no problem, but if sold and posted, you need a operators license. but don't need a tacho a long as the post office is within 100km of your home base (I think that is the distance?).
You could drive for 12+ hours within 100km radius delivering stuff on a 7.5t truck and no tacho. but drive for 1.5Hrs to go 101Km from home and need a Tacho. Unless it was a gift you are dropping off and so no tacho.
How posting something that someone bought makes your vehicle less safe than posting a present and so needs all these different rules and checks is remarkable. Carrying a motorbike in a motorhome clearly must make a motorhome drive different then the same weight in the same position but a different item.
The whole area is just a stupid bureaucratic mess of pointless random rules and needs proper rationalisation.
When I looked at this a couple of years ago, from memory it was pretty messy on the cans and can'ts when you can have PHGV or or, need an operators license or not, or need a tacho or not.
Plus there are other aspects that also impact under 3.5t e.g. If you are taking your Motorhome to a car boot sale to sell stuff, you are using as a commercial vehicle so you are limited to van speeds. if you are driving to a car boot sale to look around for fun, you can drive at car speeds.
What if you are going to look for stuff to resell? probably commercial reason for travel so van speeds? stupid rules.
So you are carrying a pillow in your vehicle that weighs 2kg.
if you are taking it to a post office to post to a customer- can't go above 60MPH.
If it is being posted as a gift, you can go 70MPH.
If you have a 4.0t PHGV Motorhome and it is a gift, no problem, but if sold and posted, you need a operators license. but don't need a tacho a long as the post office is within 100km of your home base (I think that is the distance?).
You could drive for 12+ hours within 100km radius delivering stuff on a 7.5t truck and no tacho. but drive for 1.5Hrs to go 101Km from home and need a Tacho. Unless it was a gift you are dropping off and so no tacho.
How posting something that someone bought makes your vehicle less safe than posting a present and so needs all these different rules and checks is remarkable. Carrying a motorbike in a motorhome clearly must make a motorhome drive different then the same weight in the same position but a different item.
The whole area is just a stupid bureaucratic mess of pointless random rules and needs proper rationalisation.
SquirrellCook
Forum Member
I guess it's a bit like the customs fashion that started a few years ago. "Are you carrying knifes?" Well of course we are! But you answer No.
I think what they were supposed to ask was, "Are there any loose knifes in your vehicle" Just left on a surface or stuck to a magnetic rack, which of course is stupid whilst driving.
I think it's the same with motorhomes, it's not the bike or motorbike in the back that's the problem. If the head on crash didn't kill you your bike or motorbike might. There is no way most motorhomes are capable of securing these types of loads. Even if on a rack on the back it will still try to kill you. Just read the link on seat belts and look at the loads they are supposed to handle.
I think what they were supposed to ask was, "Are there any loose knifes in your vehicle" Just left on a surface or stuck to a magnetic rack, which of course is stupid whilst driving.
I think it's the same with motorhomes, it's not the bike or motorbike in the back that's the problem. If the head on crash didn't kill you your bike or motorbike might. There is no way most motorhomes are capable of securing these types of loads. Even if on a rack on the back it will still try to kill you. Just read the link on seat belts and look at the loads they are supposed to handle.
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Sprinter 1 cup
Forum Member
How posting something that someone bought makes your vehicle less safe than posting a present and so needs all these different rules and checks is remarkable.
No insurance for hire or reward
No insurance for hire or reward
Nabsim
Forum Member
I have always been yes sir, no sir when pulled on the bike, paid dividends over the years and has got me off many speeding fines and kept license clean. Got a highest reading of 118, second of 98mph stated as āin excess of 70mphā in one car by being polite and reasonable. Never seen the point of doing otherwise when I have been stopped as knew I was in the wrong.
However, I have been next to someone who had recently bought a car and think the problem was not taxed. Car was on the drove so not even sure if a byway is same as a road for tax purposes. The new owner refused to get out of the car when police tried to arrest him. Went from one car with two officers to half a dozen cars and three vans and lost count of police. It was an equinox so they may have thought they could have a riot in the offing I donāt know. It went on for about four hours before he got out of the car and was taken away. Oh yes they had a tow truck waiting all that time as well and car was towed away once empty of people. Gawd knows how much it cost and a pointless waste of resource in my view.
I donāt know the laws on this but watch a few of the cop shows when itās dark nights and I have seen them filmed many times when someone refuses. They show the driver gets arrested, the vehicle driven to the police station and then itās searched. I presume by this (but donāt know) that being arrested alters the rights the police have.
I also know two different people who have refused to open up for police, one saying she didnāt know if they were real police and the other saying they felt they were being put under undue stress and were frightened to come out the car. In both these instances the police backed off to an extent asking them to drive to the nearest police station.
Regarding DVSA I would let them do whatever they want, they can and will seize vehicles. Better to let them get on with it then challenge afterwards if you think they are wrong (unlikely).
The above may make me look a pushover but I am not, I will put my side but in a calm reasonable way. My reaction would change with the way I am treated and donāt forget you have a phone, you can film they at least up to being arrested.
However, I have been next to someone who had recently bought a car and think the problem was not taxed. Car was on the drove so not even sure if a byway is same as a road for tax purposes. The new owner refused to get out of the car when police tried to arrest him. Went from one car with two officers to half a dozen cars and three vans and lost count of police. It was an equinox so they may have thought they could have a riot in the offing I donāt know. It went on for about four hours before he got out of the car and was taken away. Oh yes they had a tow truck waiting all that time as well and car was towed away once empty of people. Gawd knows how much it cost and a pointless waste of resource in my view.
I donāt know the laws on this but watch a few of the cop shows when itās dark nights and I have seen them filmed many times when someone refuses. They show the driver gets arrested, the vehicle driven to the police station and then itās searched. I presume by this (but donāt know) that being arrested alters the rights the police have.
I also know two different people who have refused to open up for police, one saying she didnāt know if they were real police and the other saying they felt they were being put under undue stress and were frightened to come out the car. In both these instances the police backed off to an extent asking them to drive to the nearest police station.
Regarding DVSA I would let them do whatever they want, they can and will seize vehicles. Better to let them get on with it then challenge afterwards if you think they are wrong (unlikely).
The above may make me look a pushover but I am not, I will put my side but in a calm reasonable way. My reaction would change with the way I am treated and donāt forget you have a phone, you can film they at least up to being arrested.
wildebus
Forum Member
Indeed so. the average law enforcement person is the same as any other person - a normal human being carrying out their job and there is no reason to make it more difficult. But if they are the exception being an arsehole (and you get those in ANY walk of life) then it is a different situation....
The one class of people (and they really are a class apart) that sometimes deserve the treatment is the "Freemen" who seem to make a career out of being idiots.
The one class of people (and they really are a class apart) that sometimes deserve the treatment is the "Freemen" who seem to make a career out of being idiots.
MOTOsapien
Forum Member
If anyone has a few hours of there life to sacrifice then have a look at this link from '07 about motorhome classification, MoT's and general nonsense around what constitutes a 'Living Van' etc etc....
I'm just wondering what the current status is of these laws...???
I'm just wondering what the current status is of these laws...???
VOSA Motor Caravan Classification
The following information appears in the Feb 2007 issue of Motor Caravan. [VOSA has changed the classification of some Motor Caravans to "Living Vans" so that they now require a class vii (Goods Vehicle) MOT. The changes will affect motor homes with garages, over 3000 kg. A Living Van between 300...
forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk
trevskoda
Forum Member
Many here will not cooperate with the police or talk to them as they see them as a force of occupation in Ireland, I have witnessed this once at the roadside near Portadown, police had to back of as about a thousand came out of a republican housing estate and would have lynched the cops or burned the car.
Me I do as requested being a normal person.
Me I do as requested being a normal person.
SquirrellCook
Forum Member
I lost a morning finding the few snippets I posted.
The things most people don't realise and wouldn't even accept if shown are these.
1. Taxation class is just that. It has no relevance to what the vehicle is being used for except in specific cases. A PHGV Motorhome is a M class passenger vehicle. It is not type approved for goods haulage.
2. Body Shape. Many motorhomes look like delivery vans or horse transporters as they share the same body mouldings. It's all so woolly. Just because it's accepted as a Motorhome there is nothing on the V5 that proves it is. You open the door and find nothing inside. Or vinyl wrap a delivery van.
skippy66
Forum Member
With regard to byways ,they are classed as unmetalled roads and a public highway . Therefore all legal requirements are the same as public roads ( tax insurance and MOT , including road legal silencers ) . The only difference is that the speed limit for byways is 30 MPH .
I am pretty sure all of this is still valid . Kept up to date with the regs. due to my off road motorcycling and occasional 4 wheel driving As before my retirement I was for 44 years along distance HGV 1 driver and didn't need the penalty points + I like to think I'm law abiding .
st3v3
Forum Member
I have a tacho in the truck, no card obviously. So there's a form for that lol.
Declare a heavy goods vehicle (HGV) does not need a tachograph (publishing.service.gov.uk)
MOT guy advised carrying it in the truck as well.
trevskoda
Forum Member
Your ins may be invalid, second, police under anti-terrorist laws can do as they wish, the inspection will or would be by the mot people so they to can look where they want.
What would happen in a crash, ins may not pay for your van when the bike is found among the pile of scrap at the road side.
