coal stove. best think ever

[Rodeo]

My 2p..........For years Ive regarded the Insurance docs as just a way to get tax and show the plod! If they want to wriggle out of summat they will. No matter how trivial,they find an excuse not to pay.But I also believe in being as reasonably straight with them as poss .eg I know that the Dvla have criteria for a campervan that has to be met to change to this classification. Ive fitted a cooker and sink but doubt if I'll use the cooker ever. Lets say I got the paperwork sorted with dvla,then removed the cooker. The way I see it is that if I had an accident or anything else to involve the Ins co,then they could say technically that it isnt a campervan anymore as I have removed the cooker! Once again they will wriggle out of liability.There was a guy I read about recently who had bought some ready made very cheap freestandingunits to put in his van just for the pics to send to dvla,then remove the units.

 

[Byronic]

from what you're saying,and what I understand,the ins.cos. can always find a way of not paying if they choose to. asking a layman to suggest' anything else that may affect' etc is asking for trouble and they must know that. I pretty much do see it as a bit of expensive paper to show cops and get road tax with,not because I've been fibbing but because i'm up against the country's best lawyers .
years ago a firm said i'd need an engineer's report before they'd insure my self build, but had no idea what type of engineer,and what exactly he might report on !

As cynical as I might be re. insurers, I would suggest that if you've complied with answering honestly the yes/no queries and gone along with the "spirit" of the more general terms of the contract/policy then there should be no problem. You have to ask yourself honestly what would an independant adjudicator, arbitrator (or a magistrate or judge) make of your defence of ignorance?

The woodburner is a good example would you not tell the insurer under the "inform us of any material changes etc" because (a) you genuinely considered the burner installation not the information which they wanted to know about or (b) you suspect that if you do inform the insurer of the burner they may reject your custom or hike the premium, so you don't tell them.

Would an adjudicator take the view that even as an amateur selfbuilder it would be reasonable to expect the insurer to be told of the homemade burner even if option (a) applied, you know, the "ignorance is no defence line". May he even cite web discussion as reason to know, and you've discussed it online....... you're a marked man now Mr brown

The engineers report requirement is still very much in evidence, certainly narrows my choice of insurer, if you don't fit the 90% profile then you're pretty much fooked, or at least comprimised. You've probably found as I have, that >3500kg adds yet another obstacle.

 

[minstrel]

re coal stove

The fire is actually only 4" wide. And throws out great heat considering the amount of coal used. I acctually put it on using a spoon not a shovel lol.
The flue is a 40mm square pipe. The fire sits in a steel walled area thats 21" + 15".
Coal is easily bought in small bag that last a few days frome home bargins or garages. Beach coal also burns well and combines exercise and a monetry saving lol.
If in area people might be upset by smoke just use smokless! Not as hot but clean.
As far as insurance is concered. Im sure the insurance co wouldnt think twice about acting disonorably in a claim if they can save a few quid so i have no moral prob about not telling them everything they think they would like to know

 

[john t]

We like a few others on here have muti fuel burner's at home and know how great they are for how little they cost to run. If i was doing a self build then the temptation to put one in would be high on the agenda, as for insurance and accidents, what about all the gas we take with us when we go on our travels. Carrying a small bag of coal instead of a 13kg gas bottle would imo be a far safer thing to do, if involved in any accident especially involving a fire. We carry a small portable calor gas heater with a 6kg gas bottle which we use on cold mornings, or when we've been cycling or walking in the colder weather, and it's great. For me a very small multifuel burner would be the icing on the cake. Unfortunatly, we have a modern(ish) van convertion with a Webasto heating, which i find rather crap tbh, hence why we take a small calor heater with us.

jt

 

[Byronic]

johnt if the coal burner is properly installed (just as a gas installation should be) then there's no problem that I can think of. If informed of a safely fitted coal burner then the insurer will accept it wouldn't he?...... err the fact is we're not sure and that's the problem, coal burners these days are a bit of an anachronism and fall outside the insurers narrow remit which is probably based on the factory made coachbuilt product sitting in a showroom, ie they get scared off anything they are not familiar with, hence the "tell us anything else" etc, catch-all clause.

And as for morality when dealing with insurers that certainly doesn't come into it, the thing is, in a serious incident resulting in matters reaching Court, provided you have been as honest as could be reasonably expected, then the Courts are more likely to find in your favour, they may consider that the installation of a coal burner is not something that could reasonably be expected of a self builder of which to inform the insurer, the problem arises if they do. Fortunately it's not down to the insurer to determine the facts.

 

[ricc]

surely theres 2 aspects to insurance
the first is 3rd party , a legal requirement to pay out to whoever youve driven into.... anything that affects the roadworthyness or damage causing potential of the vehicle the insurers should be informed of.....

the 2nd aspect is optional cover on the replacement/repair of the vehicle itself.... comprehensive or fire and theft insurance, here the insurers need more details of what they might be paying for , or could well refuse to pay out at all or limit to the market value of a standard van.


my van is dual purpose , everything in the back is removable, insured third party , they dont have any liability for the load carried so dont need to know.

grey areas is insulation, ply lining, vents or aditional windows.... none of these materially effect what damage ill do if i hit someone.