Cheap vs expensive
- Thread starter Squiffy
- Start date
.wildebus
Forum Member
Entertaining 
Informative? Would have been better to have done the panel test BEFORE probably damaging the panels by bending them until they make unfortunate noises. (they are called SEMI-Flexible for a reason )
Interesting comparision with the two controllers and shows the benefit of investing in the better quality unit.
Informative? Would have been better to have done the panel test BEFORE probably damaging the panels by bending them until they make unfortunate noises. (they are called SEMI-Flexible for a reason
)Interesting comparision with the two controllers and shows the benefit of investing in the better quality unit.
Squiffy
Forum Member
Dave it was the cheapee one he made wobble board noises with and it still out performed the 3 x more expensive one and as for the cheapo controller I have one exactly the same and its been charging my liesure battery with no problems for almost 5 years if my battery gave up the ghost now I would not complain, but it doesn't look as to be giving up just yet, so buying another @ £98 trade doesn't fill me with dread. The point of interest is that more expensive does not always equate to better. We are at the Malvern show at the moment I just as a matter of interest asked one of the lecy techy stores how much a lithium ion battery was that they had on display, sorry to say I could buy 20 flooded batteries for that, I smiled and said thank you and kept the £2000 in my bank. 
Phil
Philwildebus
Forum Member
I understand the point you are making. Ref the Solar Panel comparision... He bent the expensive panel to an extreme level - more than the cheap one in fact (watch the video again if you disagree). Just becuase it didn't make a noise doesn't mean it was not damaged. The last pair of semi-flexible panels I bought came with a warning - do not bend more than 10 degrees.
you don't try and damage something and THEN do a test unless the test is how well the product stood up to damage. His video was entertaining but as a product test of solar panels flawed (unless he also did a pre-bend test, but he didn't so his comaparison tests are invalid)
Ref controllers - I have around 5 of those same controllers as well. they work, yes, but they don't work as efficiently as better quality controllers (and the guy in the video found that also)
You have had that controller for 5 years. Jolly good. But how much harvesting energy have you lost out in total in those 5 years by not spending approx £60 more (£1 per month) on a decent MPPT controller?
You seem to think that all I ever say is buy cheap and it is rubbish. Wrong. I say buy appropriately. Sometimes that might be cheap (which is why Have a bunch of those cheap PWM controllers), sometimes you need to bite the bullet and actually spend money on a product of known provenance and not just the cheapest in the shop.
Back to the Table-Top Fridge .... You want an inverter to run non-stop for years and years without attendence, you don't buy the cheapest you can find, you get one you KNOW you can trust. If the inverter just has to run for a few hours whilst you are driving from home to site (I think that was the case?) then in THAT case, buying cheap to save cash makes perfect sense.
I doubt you and I will ever agree on this subject and that is fine. I won't convince you of my thought process and you won't change my mind with yours
you don't try and damage something and THEN do a test unless the test is how well the product stood up to damage. His video was entertaining but as a product test of solar panels flawed (unless he also did a pre-bend test, but he didn't so his comaparison tests are invalid)
Ref controllers - I have around 5 of those same controllers as well. they work, yes, but they don't work as efficiently as better quality controllers (and the guy in the video found that also)
You have had that controller for 5 years. Jolly good. But how much harvesting energy have you lost out in total in those 5 years by not spending approx £60 more (£1 per month) on a decent MPPT controller?
You seem to think that all I ever say is buy cheap and it is rubbish. Wrong. I say buy appropriately. Sometimes that might be cheap (which is why Have a bunch of those cheap PWM controllers), sometimes you need to bite the bullet and actually spend money on a product of known provenance and not just the cheapest in the shop.
Back to the Table-Top Fridge .... You want an inverter to run non-stop for years and years without attendence, you don't buy the cheapest you can find, you get one you KNOW you can trust. If the inverter just has to run for a few hours whilst you are driving from home to site (I think that was the case?) then in THAT case, buying cheap to save cash makes perfect sense.
I doubt you and I will ever agree on this subject and that is fine. I won't convince you of my thought process and you won't change my mind with yours
Squiffy
Forum Member
Indeed I am not trying to, I'm acting as Devils advocate to try and save folk from spending copious amounts of money unnecessarily, it just seems that only you are responding negatively to savings that can be made in the areas of electrical applications and gas as I recall, C'est la vie,
As you say Dave we might never agree but at least others can see that cheap is not always and very rarely now a days bad. Phil
As you say Dave we might never agree but at least others can see that cheap is not always and very rarely now a days bad. Phil
SquirrellCook
Forum Member
I final plucked up enough courage to watch the video. It's been tough enough learning to understand Yorkshire!
What a shame he didn't do low light or rain tests with the panels, as the expensive one appeared to be a different technology.
I expect the results would have been very different.
Mark
What a shame he didn't do low light or rain tests with the panels, as the expensive one appeared to be a different technology.
I expect the results would have been very different.
Mark
wildebus
Forum Member
ref the point above in bold ... I would refer you to this post on this forum in a thread you have contributed to also - http://www.motorhomebuilder.com/threads/240ac-electric-hot-water-in-campervan.66462/#post-866939
and the text in question ...
"One of the objectives I have with my build is to take an alternative approach that does the same job but at a fraction of the price.
For example, how much is 12V 100L Compressor Fridge? North of £700 easily I think. My Fridge is more efficient then any regular 12V Compressor Fridge and cost £170; and a Three-Way Gas Fridge is in 4 figures I understand?
Hob? a typical SMEV dual burner Gas Hob is over £200. My 240V Induction Hob was £20 brand new. (And induction Hobs are are far faster and more energy efficient than a gas hob - except in winter where the gas hob warms the whole camper when boiling a kettle)
Hot Water - I've seen prices for Gas Hot Water Systems quoted at around £300-£400? My Hot Water system (heater, expansion, valves and pipework) works out to be around £130 all in. And is a Class B Heater in terms of energy efficiency, which is very good for a Water Heater.
Those peripherals and their cost savings over the gas equivalents, plus the savings of not having gas tanks, locker and pipework go a very long to pay for the energy store (especially bearing in mind that most "gas vans" also have a reasonable battery setup and solar, so we are talking about additional upgrade costs, not full installation costs)."
So if that is being negative with regards to saving money on electrics, I wonder what is being positive?
The above copy and paste, along with my comments about, for example, getting a renowned product if you want to be able to run in non-stop forever, illustrates precisely the rational behind my comment in the post three above this where I say "buy appropriately". Not Cheap. Not Expensive. But Appropriately.
The Same is true of the discussions on Space Heating where Eberspacher Heaters vs the Cheap Chinese Heaters have been discussed, and where I have promoted the potential financial benefit of the cheap units.
And where I have said that if the user is not a "DIY" type of user, then buying the cheap option can actually turn out more expensive in the longer term than the expensive Eberspacher choice due to lower reliability and lack of spares. But if they are in a position to fit it themself and diagnose it/swap it out themselves, then the Chinese jobbies at around 1/4 the price can potentially be an excellent deal. Yet again a case of "buying appropriately".
So how you can accuse me of poo-pooing stuff BECAUSE it is cheap I don't know.
And one other one, on the subject of gas, what I have done is also played the Devils Advocate when it comes to the knee-jerk reaction of "got a camper, have to have gas" idea. It is NOT a given. Maybe someone needs it. Maybe they don't. But it is not an automatic must-have. (I picked up a full CG907 Cylinder from my local Recycler to use in my T5 conversion. I sold the van the following year after I converted it and it still had that same Gas Cylinder in it. It would have been a hell of a waste of money to fit a fillable Gas-it or whatever system in that van! but other users may well have had a different experience. So back to the broken record - "buy appropriately" )
GEOFF
The idea of an all electric system (mains voltage) using domestic appliances in a van is very appealing and certainly has advantages pricewise over using MH specific gear. However the cost of a decent lithium battery storage system and solar array may be fine for full timers, but IMHO is not really suitable for the average MH user who may well only "camp out" about 20 - 30 nights a year, and probably will only use sites with HU and very good washroom facilities. Each of us will have our own particular preferences and will adopt whatever systems suits. There are no rights or wrongs - just horses for courses.Geoff.