Poppy
My goodness, even these come in different amps! How on earth is one meant to know, when one is new to all this Grrrrr:scared:
n brown
Forum Member
more amps-more quick,if you haven't got one that one coming up at lidl will do you fine.don't get overwhelmed,you can only learn one thing at a time,just take it steady and don't look at the big picture as its too big to take in. if i thought about how many things i had to do and also know how to do when i start a conversion,i'd have a panic attack!i just think'today i build a bed' and try to do that
Poppy
Such good advice, I'm nodding my head whilst reading your reply. I'm looking at loads of different stuff all at once...thinking, do I need that? Then seeing there are 5 or 6 different ones of the same thing & I get even more confused. Then I start to think "bugger, I may have bitten of more than I can chew".
Then I calm down & think, I can only do the things I know how to do, other stuff I'll get advice & follow instruction & other things I'll leave well alone & get a pro' to do it.
Thanks for the 'heads up' over lidls
n brown
Forum Member
thats the point of this forum innit ?knowledge sharing !whether its somewhere to park up or how to fit a window.there's loads of people on here who not only know loads of stuff but are well happy to share it.my thing is self builds,i think everybody should be able to get a van and go off,and i'm pleased to help people get there.so anybody who needs to know stuff,don't be shy to ask! i never was and loved picking other peoples brains
GRWXJR
How many Amps....
What we work on with stuff for work with deep-cycle batteries.....
As a rough guide the most you need is a charger that is rated at 10% of your total battery capacity (so 1 x 100A rated leisure battery = 10A max Amperage charger necessary). The charger also has to be for the correct voltage as well, obviously !
Any bigger than 10% or so & it is possible that the charger can the battery too fast for the battery's overall life & health.
A smaller charger will do (say 5A) will work just fine, but will take roughly twice as long to recharge your battery as a 10A one. No problem if you have the van on hook-up for long enough without using a lot of stuff to drain the battery (so counter-acting what you are putting in with the charger), but a charger with more oomph will be useful if you need to recharge in a shorter period, or if you hope to charge the battery while running a fair bit of 12v stuff in the van at the same time.
Some small 12v chargers (like the ones that look like a fatter 3-pin household plug) may be rated at less than 1A, so too weedy to be much use IMO (but fine for maintaining a well-charged battery when laid up, to counteract the normal bit of discharge that every battery experiences even when left with no loads connected.
Intelligent chargers which can be left permanently connected without risking over-charging are far better (and pretty common these days) than the basic cheap chargers which just put out the same current all the time regardless of the battery charge state.
So.... up to 10% of your battery rating, and a clever one!
FWIW I have a 10A Numax charger which seems to work pretty well that I've had for years that I use in my recently aquired (and 1st ever) home converted van. I think these cost about £75 though which is a bit hefty.
What we work on with stuff for work with deep-cycle batteries.....
As a rough guide the most you need is a charger that is rated at 10% of your total battery capacity (so 1 x 100A rated leisure battery = 10A max Amperage charger necessary). The charger also has to be for the correct voltage as well, obviously
!Any bigger than 10% or so & it is possible that the charger can the battery too fast for the battery's overall life & health.
A smaller charger will do (say 5A) will work just fine, but will take roughly twice as long to recharge your battery as a 10A one. No problem if you have the van on hook-up for long enough without using a lot of stuff to drain the battery (so counter-acting what you are putting in with the charger), but a charger with more oomph will be useful if you need to recharge in a shorter period, or if you hope to charge the battery while running a fair bit of 12v stuff in the van at the same time.
Some small 12v chargers (like the ones that look like a fatter 3-pin household plug) may be rated at less than 1A, so too weedy to be much use IMO (but fine for maintaining a well-charged battery when laid up, to counteract the normal bit of discharge that every battery experiences even when left with no loads connected.
Intelligent chargers which can be left permanently connected without risking over-charging are far better (and pretty common these days) than the basic cheap chargers which just put out the same current all the time regardless of the battery charge state.
So.... up to 10% of your battery rating, and a clever one!
FWIW I have a 10A Numax charger which seems to work pretty well that I've had for years that I use in my recently aquired (and 1st ever) home converted van. I think these cost about £75 though which is a bit hefty.
Poppy
Then stand by to have your brain well & truly picked!!
Poppy
Actually, I have a charger....for my motorbike batt' will have to go check it out.
Poppy
What we work on with stuff for work with deep-cycle batteries.....
As a rough guide the most you need is a charger that is rated at 10% of your total battery capacity (so 1 x 100A rated leisure battery = 10A max Amperage charger necessary). The charger also has to be for the correct voltage as well, obviously
Any bigger than 10% or so & it is possible that the charger can the battery too fast for the battery's overall life & health.
A smaller charger will do (say 5A) will work just fine, but will take roughly twice as long to recharge your battery as a 10A one. No problem if you have the van on hook-up for long enough without using a lot of stuff to drain the battery (so counter-acting what you are putting in with the charger), but a charger with more oomph will be useful if you need to recharge in a shorter period, or if you hope to charge the battery while running a fair bit of 12v stuff in the van at the same time.
Some small 12v chargers (like the ones that look like a fatter 3-pin household plug) may be rated at less than 1A, so too weedy to be much use IMO (but fine for maintaining a well-charged battery when laid up, to counteract the normal bit of discharge that every battery experiences even when left with no loads connected.
Intelligent chargers which can be left permanently connected without risking over-charging are far better (and pretty common these days) than the basic cheap chargers which just put out the same current all the time regardless of the battery charge state.
So.... up to 10% of your battery rating, and a clever one!
FWIW I have a 10A Numax charger which seems to work pretty well that I've had for years that I use in my recently aquired (and 1st ever) home converted van. I think these cost about £75 though which is a bit hefty.
I have a battery charger for my motorbike, which turns itself off. But I don't know what the amps are. will have another look.
GRWXJR
Ok - but even a biggish bike only has a smallish battery (e.g. my 1150cc has only a 19A battery). So motorbike chargers don't need much oomph to be able to look after the battery. So... chances are it's a bit small for your needs - esp. as I read that you are considering a linked pair of 100Ah batteries (but check it anyway -you never know!).
coolasluck
yep absolutly right its worse if you are no good doing drawings hee hee,you can just try your best and make it up as you go along,for me i had or have the ideas in my head and i go from there leaving plenty of space for wiring e.t.c.
Think one thing at a time!!
Poppy
Yep two 100/10 Ah will dig it out of the cupboard tomoz, off to :sleep-027: as I'm up at 4am for work
sparrks
I think you got to ask yourself what do you want this battery charger for?
Your leisure batteries should be charged using your Split charger and Solar panels assuming you go that route.
If you are going to leave the van unused for a longish period then you only need a low Amp charger to keep them topped up, if it's whilst you are on hook up then a larger one may well be required.
The 10% figure has been mentioned which is not a bad guide to use but remember that could take upto 12 - 18hrs to reach full charge assuming no large loads are discharging the battery whilst charging.
I would see what your current charger is like and put of buying another until a later date when you have a better understanding of what your needs are - It's cheaper that way as well.
Your leisure batteries should be charged using your Split charger and Solar panels assuming you go that route.
If you are going to leave the van unused for a longish period then you only need a low Amp charger to keep them topped up, if it's whilst you are on hook up then a larger one may well be required.
The 10% figure has been mentioned which is not a bad guide to use but remember that could take upto 12 - 18hrs to reach full charge assuming no large loads are discharging the battery whilst charging.
I would see what your current charger is like and put of buying another until a later date when you have a better understanding of what your needs are - It's cheaper that way as well.
GRWXJR
I think you got to ask yourself what do you want this battery charger for?
Your leisure batteries should be charged using your Split charger and Solar panels assuming you go that route.
If you are going to leave the van unused for a longish period then you only need a low Amp charger to keep them topped up, if it's whilst you are on hook up then a larger one may well be required.
The 10% figure has been mentioned which is not a bad guide to use but remember that could take upto 12 - 18hrs to reach full charge assuming no large loads are discharging the battery whilst charging.
I would see what your current charger is like and put of buying another until a later date when you have a better understanding of what your needs are - It's cheaper that way as well.
Good advice I reckon.
On the '10%' bit and the charge times though I would add.... with big battery packs we've been working with the 10% rule as a way to minimise charge duration without adversely influencing overall life of the cells in charge/discharge cycles (e.g. a fork lift battery is estimated to have a 1500 cycle lifespan before significant deterioration in performance if looked after properly).
Also, as you are never really able to access the full 100% or 100A of a battery (as the voltage drop with loss of charge means your battery can't hold up loads) - systems we use in battery/inverter/charger off-grid set-ups have failsafes to either bring in a generator to recharge and shutdown if a charge source isn't available to protect the cells. We also 'cap' the output the system can draw so that the drain on the battery pack is always less than the recharge rate that can be put in - otherwise it takes longer to recharge than discharge & screws up the efficiency of the system. If the 'cap' is exceeded the system auto-starts the genny and brings it on line to run the load and simultaneously top-up the battery instead).
The above in essence is similar to the Autoglass repair vehicles mode of operation - running the engine on the van so they can operate their tools through a big inverter at the side of the road changing a windscreen - the battery isn't being hammered by the big draw as the engine charge alternator is compensating. if he didn't run the engine the battery goes flat fast and then he cant restart the van to drive off.
Its a 'bad idea' to pound any battery and every last drop out of it - it WILL compromise its life quite quickly. So, as a general rule you're only using 50% or 60% tops of the rated capacity of the battery. Meaning that at most you have to replenish 60% of a say 100A battery, which with a 10A charger (10%) is approximately 6-hours charge time (after which some extra Absorption time with a clever charger would be nice admittedly).
We need to bear in mind that the charge alternator on the fan probably can't produce 10% of the connected battery capacity either. Also the charge alternator is maintaining the draw of the vehicle's systems off the starter battery as well as charging your leisure battery pack on the move at the same time. So a '10%' mains-powered charger seems like a pretty good all around yardstick with all things considered to me.
(Caveat
) Having said all that... I freely and openly admit I'm a total newbie with vans and haven't the direct user experience of this exact application that so many folks on here will have, so while what I've put is right for some applications I have worked with, its theoretical as far as this goes. I'm sure there must be lots of nice people on here who can let you know: 1. the rated output of their chargers
2. what percentage of the van's leisure battery storage that charger is
3. how well their system works for them *
* Please bear in mind there is always the variable as well of just how the stored energy is used by the occupants - which will mean that even 2 people with the same system will get different performance from the kit. E.g. batteries are much better at dealing with low-level power draws for long durations than they are at dealing with high-level power demands for any duration. So - even though drawing 10A for 1 hour is mathematically the same amount of energy used as drawing 1A for 10 hours, it is the battery supplying at 1A that will give more overall energy out before needing a recharge. Basically a user with high peak power demands will always get less battery performance overall than a user with a lower peak power demand.
Geez I'm boring! Gotta get out more
!sparrks
Good advice I reckon.
On the '10%' bit and the charge times though I would add.... with big battery packs we've been working with the 10% rule as a way to minimise charge duration without adversely influencing overall life of the cells in charge/discharge cycles (e.g. a fork lift battery is estimated to have a 1500 cycle lifespan before significant deterioration in performance if looked after properly).
Also, as you are never really able to access the full 100% or 100A of a battery (as the voltage drop with loss of charge means your battery can't hold up loads) - systems we use in battery/inverter/charger off-grid set-ups have failsafes to either bring in a generator to recharge and shutdown if a charge source isn't available to protect the cells. We also 'cap' the output the system can draw so that the drain on the battery pack is always less than the recharge rate that can be put in - otherwise it takes longer to recharge than discharge & screws up the efficiency of the system. If the 'cap' is exceeded the system auto-starts the genny and brings it on line to run the load and simultaneously top-up the battery instead).
The above in essence is similar to the Autoglass repair vehicles mode of operation - running the engine on the van so they can operate their tools through a big inverter at the side of the road changing a windscreen - the battery isn't being hammered by the big draw as the engine charge alternator is compensating. if he didn't run the engine the battery goes flat fast and then he cant restart the van to drive off.
Its a 'bad idea' to pound any battery and every last drop out of it - it WILL compromise its life quite quickly. So, as a general rule you're only using 50% or 60% tops of the rated capacity of the battery. Meaning that at most you have to replenish 60% of a say 100A battery, which with a 10A charger (10%) is approximately 6-hours charge time (after which some extra Absorption time with a clever charger would be nice admittedly).
We need to bear in mind that the charge alternator on the fan probably can't produce 10% of the connected battery capacity either. Also the charge alternator is maintaining the draw of the vehicle's systems off the starter battery as well as charging your leisure battery pack on the move at the same time. So a '10%' mains-powered charger seems like a pretty good all around yardstick with all things considered to me.
(Caveat
1. the rated output of their chargers
2. what percentage of the van's leisure battery storage that charger is
3. how well their system works for them *
* Please bear in mind there is always the variable as well of just how the stored energy is used by the occupants - which will mean that even 2 people with the same system will get different performance from the kit. E.g. batteries are much better at dealing with low-level power draws for long durations than they are at dealing with high-level power demands for any duration. So - even though drawing 10A for 1 hour is mathematically the same amount of energy used as drawing 1A for 10 hours, it is the battery supplying at 1A that will give more overall energy out before needing a recharge. Basically a user with high peak power demands will always get less battery performance overall than a user with a lower peak power demand.
Geez I'm boring! Gotta get out more
I use a Sterling 50A Battery to Battery charger, works very well as long as you keep the levels topped up. I normally have the B2B set to sealed lead acid in general use for more gentle charging and set to wet cell when a more rigorous charge is required.
What I like most with the B2B is that when driving with lights, demister, wipers, heater etc the starter batt volt can drop to around 13v but the B2B is still charging at full voltage 14.4/14.8 dependant on settings. In that scenario I would have thought the leisure battery with a split charge would be receiving very little charge if any.
For me the best setup possible would be to add a couple of Solar panels.
I also have a 20A 4 stage charger which I'll use if I don't use my car or van for a week or 2. I attach to the starter battery on the van and it then charges all batteries.
In summary the B2B works very well and coupled with Solar I think it would be brilliant.
GRWXJR
Sterling
Seems like a terrific system that Sterling. But kinda expensive and too rich for my blood I think. What is one of those without the batteries - £200? More?
Seems like a terrific system that Sterling. But kinda expensive and too rich for my blood I think. What is one of those without the batteries - £200? More?
sparrks
Aound the £250 mark, certainly not cheap, but does what I ask of it, but I save in fuel as the van doesn't have to be driven so far to put in a decent charge.
Poppy
Good advice I reckon.
On the '10%' bit and the charge times though I would add.... with big battery packs we've been working with the 10% rule as a way to minimise charge duration without adversely influencing overall life of the cells in charge/discharge cycles (e.g. a fork lift battery is estimated to have a 1500 cycle lifespan before significant deterioration in performance if looked after properly).
Also, as you are never really able to access the full 100% or 100A of a battery (as the voltage drop with loss of charge means your battery can't hold up loads) - systems we use in battery/inverter/charger off-grid set-ups have failsafes to either bring in a generator to recharge and shutdown if a charge source isn't available to protect the cells. We also 'cap' the output the system can draw so that the drain on the battery pack is always less than the recharge rate that can be put in - otherwise it takes longer to recharge than discharge & screws up the efficiency of the system. If the 'cap' is exceeded the system auto-starts the genny and brings it on line to run the load and simultaneously top-up the battery instead).
The above in essence is similar to the Autoglass repair vehicles mode of operation - running the engine on the van so they can operate their tools through a big inverter at the side of the road changing a windscreen - the battery isn't being hammered by the big draw as the engine charge alternator is compensating. if he didn't run the engine the battery goes flat fast and then he cant restart the van to drive off.
Its a 'bad idea' to pound any battery and every last drop out of it - it WILL compromise its life quite quickly. So, as a general rule you're only using 50% or 60% tops of the rated capacity of the battery. Meaning that at most you have to replenish 60% of a say 100A battery, which with a 10A charger (10%) is approximately 6-hours charge time (after which some extra Absorption time with a clever charger would be nice admittedly).
We need to bear in mind that the charge alternator on the fan probably can't produce 10% of the connected battery capacity either. Also the charge alternator is maintaining the draw of the vehicle's systems off the starter battery as well as charging your leisure battery pack on the move at the same time. So a '10%' mains-powered charger seems like a pretty good all around yardstick with all things considered to me.
(Caveat
1. the rated output of their chargers
2. what percentage of the van's leisure battery storage that charger is
3. how well their system works for them *
* Please bear in mind there is always the variable as well of just how the stored energy is used by the occupants - which will mean that even 2 people with the same system will get different performance from the kit. E.g. batteries are much better at dealing with low-level power draws for long durations than they are at dealing with high-level power demands for any duration. So - even though drawing 10A for 1 hour is mathematically the same amount of energy used as drawing 1A for 10 hours, it is the battery supplying at 1A that will give more overall energy out before needing a recharge. Basically a user with high peak power demands will always get less battery performance overall than a user with a lower peak power demand.
Geez I'm boring! Gotta get out more
GOSH....I think I understood most of it :-/
gaz2676
http://www.motorcyclenews.com/MCN/P...11/June/jun2711-review-oxford-maximiser-3800/ fully automatic charges up to 125ah make sure its the 3800 you look at
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