Can you use idling engine/alternator as a generator?

trevskoda

Forum Member
My firm used to run diesel, vauxhall combo and corsa in central London.

A mate that worked out of covent garden every day had one of these vans and on westminster bridge the diesel engine rang away engine going flat out with the keys out the ignition.

Clouds of smoke until the engine destroyed itself.

:hammer::hammer::hammer:

Yep i remember in late seventies a toyota diesel van with very high mileage belonging to wholesale news papers would once warm on the m/way run away with its self around 60mph with worn intake valve guides/seals letting oil into cylinders.
 

skippy

Forum Member
can you use idling engine

Withams military sales often have lister diesel generators for sale would be ideal never heard any neighbours complain about noise when the gennie is running,I'll park next to Ian so he can check the decibal readings.
 

n brown

Forum Member
Yep i remember in late seventies a toyota diesel van with very high mileage belonging to wholesale news papers would once warm on the m/way run away with its self around 60mph with worn intake valve guides/seals letting oil into cylinders.
had a couple of bedford 220 engines run away, quite frightening to have the cab filling with smoke and flames coming out the exaust, the sliding bellows used to come off its track in the inline pump. easy enough to stop by pulling off the air filter and closing the air intake with the palm of your hand, first time took a bit of nerve !
 

janner

pto

earlier on it was mentioned about adding an extra alternator,anyhow this reminded me of something,if like myself you had an old lidl/b&q style 2stroke genny that has a kaput engine,what would be the problem,apart from the space and hooking the drive up,of utilising the generator side with its components etc as a straight 240v source powered from the vehicle engine?.i'm sure that any engine in good order should be able to cope with a microwave's cooking time before it eats itself,
all the best.
jan
 

trevskoda

Forum Member
earlier on it was mentioned about adding an extra alternator,anyhow this reminded me of something,if like myself you had an old lidl/b&q style 2stroke genny that has a kaput engine,what would be the problem,apart from the space and hooking the drive up,of utilising the generator side with its components etc as a straight 240v source powered from the vehicle engine?.i'm sure that any engine in good order should be able to cope with a microwave's cooking time before it eats itself,
all the best.
jan

You can buy 230v alts,they use them on narrow boats and super yachts,expensive .
 

Water or wheels

I always understood that alternators were 240 volt AC stepped down and rectified to 12 volt DC.

Was I wrong to think that?

Yes ! they are wired and regulated for 12, 24 or 240 volts ....

The 240 volt alternators were fitted to some military vehicles and some of the talbot murvi motorhomes had them, On a previous narrowboat to the one i live on now i had a 240 volt alternator which was part of an electrolux travelpower system, it had its own box of tricks to ensure a smooth output so at above 1200 rpm i could run a washing machine whilst cruising along the cut. I have seen similar things in british gas work vans amongst others where they need mains to use power tools.

My electrical systems are...
Narrowboat .... 2 alternators one 70mp and one 145 amp with a charge controller, i also have a smartguage connected to a smartbank which parallels the outputs to give me around 180 amps of charge as the charge controller is programmable and cons the alternators they are on full load and has temperature sensing on both the alternators and batteries to ensure they dont cook!... i have a 3kw pure sine inverter, a 60 amp charger, a 2kw pure sine inverter generator and 800 watts of tilting solar panels all feeding through 8 6 volt 225amp deep cycle trojan batteries.
Equipment wise i have a full size 12 volt fridge and freezer a washer dryer i only run when either on the genny or with the engine running, a 50" led in the lounge a 32" led in the bedroom a satellite system a microwave a bread maker , berspacher diesel heating running 4 large radiators and a 75 litre calorifier and a few other gadgets ... i cruise march to october without any power issues but i always have a mooring with a hook up through winter as my solar is all but useless for at least 2 - 3 months and running the engine a few hours a day isnt an option as my diesel engine is prone to bore glazing if not worked hard enough.
Motorhome ... Just the standard alternator a 2500/120 pure sine combined inverter charger currently 2 x110 amp leisure batteries but soon going to fit 4 x 6volt 225amp trojans ... the same genny ... motorhome has a microwave sat system, 26" tv and just the standard kit 3 way fridge blown air heating etc currently gas but going to change it or add an eberspacher blown air heater a couple of 275 watt solar panels, also want a gas it or similar as the plan is to use the boat through the summer and disappear abroad for the winter to spain italy or portugal ... also need to change all the light to l.e.d. ... as i said not long bought it so have a long list of mods to work on!

For those who dont understand the way alternators work an alternator will only output what the battery demands so if you pull up and leave the engine running to charge your leisure batteries you only get a few amps of charge, this is why when you put your heaters, lights, heated rear window etc all on at the same time your engine note changes as your alternator is running to near its full output.... so if you are running your engine for a hour on not much more than tickover to charge your leisure battery you will be lucky to get more than a few amps going into it , certainly a fraction of the rated output of your alternator.

For those building a van and designing an electrical system from scratch particularly for wild camping you need to do a power audit and have at least twice as much as you will ever use between battery charges plus a little extra .... for example if you are using 100 amps in an evening then running the next day to replace that charge your battery bank should be at least 220 amps (because of the peukert effect the 220 rated amps is nearer 200) and you should never allow your batteries below 50% s.o.c. (state of charge) most leisure batteries are between 150 and 300 cycles @ 50% which means everytime you run them below this thats one cycle used up ... get to 150 and they are as dead as the parrot in the monty python sketch! i never let my batteries go below 60% min and the 6 volt ones on my boat although expensive last between 8 and 15 years as they start at 1250 cycles ... also be aware batteries sulphate and need a charger which has a desulphation stage where it ramps the charge up to over 14.5 volts for a couple of hours to shed the plates of the sulpher that builds up on them .... this is why your standard 110 amp leisure batteries are probably down to around 85 amps of capacity within 12 months ... even more so if your motorhome sits for long periods without regular battery charging and maintenance.

Sorry if i have rattled on, i am certainly not trying to teach anyone to suck eggs, so if you know all the above please forgive me but hopefully there will be a few out there i have imparted a little knowledge or awareness to and should anyone require any help wiring sizes fuse ratings or anything else i am more than happy to help

Rick
 

harrow

Forum Member
You can buy 230v alts,they use them on narrow boats and super yachts,expensive .
Yes,

well if you think about it, that's what is attached to the petrol engine on a portable generator.

This technique could be used by campers using large commercial vehicles where there is enough room in the engine bay to fit additional equipment.

:juggle::juggle::juggle:
 

n brown

Forum Member
earlier on it was mentioned about adding an extra alternator,anyhow this reminded me of something,if like myself you had an old lidl/b&q style 2stroke genny that has a kaput engine,what would be the problem,apart from the space and hooking the drive up,of utilising the generator side with its components etc as a straight 240v source powered from the vehicle engine?.i'm sure that any engine in good order should be able to cope with a microwave's cooking time before it eats itself,
all the best.
jan
i'm pretty sure these little gennys don't have separate engines and alternators the crankshaft is an extension of the armature
 

harrow

Forum Member
i'm pretty sure these little gennys don't have separate engines and alternators the crankshaft is an extension of the armature

I know some of the generators in a frame have separate alternators.

BUT it depends if there is enough room under the bonnet and having the skills to complete the work.

:juggle::juggle::juggle:
 

harrow

Forum Member
i'm pretty sure these little gennys don't have separate engines and alternators the crankshaft is an extension of the armature

I know some of the generators in a frame have separate alternators.

BUT it depends if there is enough room under the bonnet and having the skills to complete the work.

:juggle::juggle::juggle:
 

janner

I know some of the generators in a frame have separate alternators.

BUT it depends if there is enough room under the bonnet and having the skills to complete the work.

:juggle::juggle::juggle:

so really with all the hassle it would be better to find the most compact & quiet genny that can power a low wattage mwave.some of those suitcase models look to be a good size with clean lines for wiping down and stowing, most likely quieter than an unlaboured diesel at 1500rpm.,
all the best.
jan
 

shawbags

We have 2 X 100w solar panels on the roof and a Durite voltage sensing split charge relay charging 3 x 100ah leisure batteries....
As we tend to move about a bit we don't struggle for power even being all electric cooking wise.

My opinion from what I've heard and read is if you have the space ad more solar panels , extra battery and upgrade your alternator , I personally thing having everything electric is putting your eggs in one basket , there is only so much you can do without mains power and after that , as already said , you spending a pound to save a penny .
 

AuldTam

Going back to the orignal post, most welfare vans fitted with microwaves and water heaters do this, e.g. Network Rail. They run the engine when using the microwave and heating water for only a few minutes each day therefore best economical solution.
 

QFour

Rant about Engines and Generators

First time it happened we were sitting all nice and quiet when the MH next to us started the engine. Fumes etc so we moved. He ran his engine for about 3 hours and then went to bed so was evidently powering everything from the engine. Second time it happened we were sitting in a car park with some other MH's about 9pm in the evening when all of a sudden you could hear this bloody generator. Not the quietest genny so decided to go and ask them to turn it off. They saw me coming and opened the door. Just heating up some soup up in the microwave was his reply and then going to watch a bit of tv. Surprised you can hear it with all that noise going on outside I said. He then muttered something about not being able to do anything without someone complaining. So I just stood there and asked him to turn it off NOW.

It's not really fair if you decide to run an engine or generator and others are nearby. If you are on your own and no one can hear then ok.

..
 

Deleted member 36

First time it happened we were sitting all nice and quiet when the MH next to us started the engine. Fumes etc so we moved. He ran his engine for about 3 hours and then went to bed so was evidently powering everything from the engine. Second time it happened we were sitting in a car park with some other MH's about 9pm in the evening when all of a sudden you could hear this bloody generator. Not the quietest genny so decided to go and ask them to turn it off. They saw me coming and opened the door. Just heating up some soup up in the microwave was his reply and then going to watch a bit of tv. Surprised you can hear it with all that noise going on outside I said. He then muttered something about not being able to do anything without someone complaining. So I just stood there and asked him to turn it off NOW.

It's not really fair if you decide to run an engine or generator and others are nearby. If you are on your own and no one can hear then ok.

..
I just can't understand people using a geny to power a TV! Have they never heard of 12 Volt TV!
And I am a Geny owner!
 

Deleted member 36

In fact I will go further.
Having owned a geny for about 10 years, I have only used it to charge the battery and the odd occasion for Mrs G's things.
For battery charging, it was always used when any neighbouring van owners had gone walkies
And for Mrs G's things, just for a few minutes, maybe 10mins, and I would always without exception ask in a sort of tell the neighbouring van it would be for a very short time.
Never had any complaint!
People idling their engines for me is a BIG no no!
Exhaust fumes coming into my open door. This is even worse than a geny!
 

Roger

I've seen a van that is being used to splice fibre optic cables for the broadband service, engine running, roof mounted air con running and the splicing machine also running as the cables were being pulled through. Unless the generator was inboard, the vehicle alternator was supplying all the power and I think probably via an inverter.
 

mistericeman

Forum Member
I've seen a van that is being used to splice fibre optic cables for the broadband service, engine running, roof mounted air con running and the splicing machine also running as the cables were being pulled through. Unless the generator was inboard, the vehicle alternator was supplying all the power and I think probably via an inverter.

Not necessarily via the vehicle alternator /inverter... a log of the utility companies service vehicles have a 240 or 110v alternators driven by the engine..

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.co.uk/ulk/itm/253214563045

Some also have engine driven compressors too.
 
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