Calor gas insanity

[Squiffy]

I've just been reading about this insane. move by calor gas to discontinue 3.9 and 4.5kg bottles which in turn has caused a
Massive shortage of 6kg propane bottles
Due to thousands of people switching to 6kg, self builders have also been blamed due to the vast in rease of self built motorhomes . I know there is a really serious problem as my daughter and sis in law have been trying for weeks to obtain 6kg propane refills, we managed to get a refill done by a friend who owns his own Lpg gas supply company, he was able to refill the calor bottle for them but this ofcourse was a one off as he lives 200 miles away and we just happened to be travelling passed his premises on our last trip.

I don't know what others think but personally I feel that the decision makers of Calor have not really thought this through and that the refusal to refund the deposits on all these bottles out there unless you have the original receipts from (15 years ago) or longer in some cases might even find them selves in court if enough people are minded to bond together and fund the legal costs, though unlike the French, British tend to be too consevative in their attitude to being ripped off. Phil

 

[Millie Master]

I know you shouldn't, but with the installation in my 'Millie' it is easy to refill proprietory cyliders, just as long as they are totally empty, allowing me to make an accurate calculation as to the 80% capacity.

Both when I lived in Wales as well as in N.E. Lincs. both my houses had calor gas cookers/hobs and it saved me a veritable fortune refilling my own cylinders (safely), I have also refilled several of my friends steel cylinders when out and about touring in France.

I am able to do this as I have an external filling point as well as a SafeFill free standing cylinder which is normally connected to the external filler by a hose and the associated pig tail. All I have to do is to disconnect the pipe from my cylinder and connect it onto A.N.Others cylinder which is suitably lashed down inside the living area and then go off to the filling station where I then very carefully fill the steel cylinder up to the calculated capacity figure.

 

[Pudsey Bear]

We should not be encouraging filling bottles not designed to be filled outside of the properly equipped filling place, if it was safe the Calor dealers in large towns would have storage and be doing it themselves when you take a bottle for exchange, but they don't because it is not safe.

 

[Millie Master]

We should not be encouraging filling bottles not designed to be filled outside of the properly equipped filling place, if it was safe the Calor dealers in large towns would have storage and be doing it themselves when you take a bottle for exchange, but they don't because it is not safe.

In my Series Land Rover days, I used to be a member of numerous forum/club groups where inumerable members, including myself, used to refill their own bottles.
The concensus of opinion was that if the bottles looked to be in 'as new' condition and were not old then as long as you strictly adhered to the 80% rule, then it was perfectly safe to refill them. After all the SafeFill refillable gas bottle that I own and have fitted to my van as we as all the other refillable gas bottles that have the all important 80% safety device fitted to them are in all other ways exactly the same as any of the proprietary garage/high street cylinders that anyone can buy all of which can justly lay claim to being Rip Off too expensive!!

Oh and by the way, as far as I know any and all Calor owned main distribution depots, all have their own refilling points where all of their own cylinders are refilled.

 

[Squiffy]

Whilst I would not condone illegal practices I have to agree with Phil that if done correctly, transferring liquid gas from a larger bottle to a smaller bottle is no more or even less dangerous than transferring petrol from a Jerry can to a vehicle or generator, as when transferring liquid gas it is not open to the atmosphere (If done correctly that is). Where as transferring petrol fumes are constantly escaping. Many years ago while in charge of a military detachment which was remote, I on many occasions had to decant propane from the squadron main gas tank to smaller mobile bottles where I had to adhere to the 80% rule ( By weight in this case) there was never an accident or even the thought of an accident happening, but then in those days ear plugs or muffs were a distant health and safety rule while firing weapons in anger or competition . Phil

I wonder how many Ukrainians are wearing ear plugs during this "Russian special operation".

 

[Pudsey Bear]

In my Series Land Rover days, I used to be a member of numerous forum/club groups where inumerable members, including myself, used to refill their own bottles.
The concensus of opinion was that if the bottles looked to be in 'as new' condition and were not old then as long as you strictly adhered to the 80% rule, then it was perfectly safe to refill them. After all the SafeFill refillable gas bottle that I own and have fitted to my van as we as all the other refillable gas bottles that have the all important 80% safety device fitted to them are in all other ways exactly the same as any of the proprietary garage/high street cylinders that anyone can buy all of which can justly lay claim to being Rip Off too expensive!!

Oh and by the way, as far as I know any and all Calor owned main distribution depots, all have their own refilling points where all of their own cylinders are refilled.

I agree with the rip off charges entirely, some garages use Calor for refilling properly designed cylinders and tanks, but the regular propane rental cylinders do not have a safety cut off, so you risk your own and others' safety each time you do it, I'm not sure of the legality of it and if seen doing it it may lead to it being impossible for anyone to fill legal cylinders anymore, so why not just buy a proper refillable cylinder which is of course another rip off.

 

[Pudsey Bear]

Whilst I would not condone illegal practices I have to agree with Phil that if done correctly, transferring liquid gas from a larger bottle to a smaller bottle is no more or even less dangerous than transferring petrol from a Jerry can to a vehicle or generator, as when transferring liquid gas it is not open to the atmosphere (If done correctly that is). Where as transferring petrol fumes are constantly escaping. Many years ago while in charge of a military detachment which was remote, I on many occasions had to decant propane from the squadron main gas tank to smaller mobile bottles where I had to adhere to the 80% rule ( By weight in this case) there was never an accident or even the thought of an accident happening, but then in those days ear plugs or muffs were a distant health and safety rule while firing weapons in anger or competition . Phil

I wonder how many Ukrainians are wearing ear plugs during this "Russian special operation".

"If done correctly" is the key point Phil, some folks can't even wire a plug correctly, and to put an extreme point out there as it is the incorrect bottle to start with there is no correct way.

But how many of you would even consider doing it never mind actually doing it?

 

[Squiffy]

Trouble is Gasit and equivalents are expensive. If you know the Tare weight and the full weight of the cylinder you are filling then it's very easy to fill to 80%.
I.e. weigh an empty cylinder, say its 7kg
And it will be marked as say a 6kg gas bottle. So you whilst on some scales fill
The bottle to 13kg weight. You now know that it is filled to the recommended 80%
But if concerned only fill it till the bottle weighs 12kg and so be sure that there is an void at the top of the bottle by the valve.
By the by Lpg bottles should never at any point be used other than in its vertical position , you would be surprised at how many people do not think it matters. Phil

 

[Pudsey Bear]

Am I correct? you have to weigh it whilst filling it?

 

[Squiffy]

Yes, or you can do it In batches till you have the required weight
I.e. fill your 6kg bottle off the scales for a small transfer of liquid then reweigh the bottle it might now weigh 9kg a d so you will have transferred 2kg of liquid in a tare weight bottle of 7kg, you can keep refilling like this slowly till you achieve the target weight of 13kg which in turn says you have filled the bottle with 6kg of liquid, hence the same weight as from your local stockists at £33 thank you very much. Obviously weighing it while you fill it is a much safer way than weighing it in episodes. Phil

 

[Squiffy]

Quite frankly if someone is not happy about using a straight transfer pipe and aware of how to do it safely, then they should not be doing it and purchase a Gasit bottle and associated connectors for garage forecourt style filling. Phil

But freedom of information is sometimes.es a good thing or sometimes a bad thing

 

[JIXAMAN]

Our Chevy Van has a propane conversion and has the big tank in the back, we'v got a join in the pipe with a bayonet fitting so we can attach forklift cylinders which means we dont need a long run to the garage for autogas.

Getting to the point, it goes both ways, it'll fill a small cylinder for the BBQ or patio heater if were short... Ahv no blown up me or anything else doing it yet...

 

[JIXAMAN]

Trouble is Gasit and equivalents are expensive. If you know the Tare weight and the full weight of the cylinder you are filling then it's very easy to fill to 80%.
I.e. weigh an empty cylinder, say its 7kg
And it will be marked as say a 6kg gas bottle. So you whilst on some scales fill
The bottle to 13kg weight. You now know that it is filled to the recommended 80%
But if concerned only fill it till the bottle weighs 12kg and so be sure that there is an void at the top of the bottle by the valve.
By the by Lpg bottles should never at any point be used other than in its vertical position , you would be surprised at how many people do not think it matters. Phil

Forklift bottles are on their sides... No arguin, just sayin...

 

[Squiffy]

Yes they have specially made pick ups inside which pick up liquid gas not vapour.
The engine on forklifts are designed to run on liquid gas supplied not vapour. Phil

 

[Pudsey Bear]

Forklift bottles are on their sides... No arguin, just sayin...

Yes the take off point is in a different place.

 

[Pudsey Bear]

Yes the take off point is in a different place.

Phil beat me

 

[Squiffy]

Just to make things clear a converted car to LPG also picks up liquid gas which is then pumped to a converter which mixes gas with air which is then injected into the inlet manifold system, much the same way as a forklift truck engine does. Phil

 

[Millie Master]

"If done correctly" is the key point Phil, some folks can't even wire a plug correctly, and to put an extreme point out there as it is the incorrect bottle to start with there is no correct way.

But how many of you would even consider doing it never mind actually doing it?

This is EXACTLY why I stressed calculating the 80% capacity of a 100% empty cylinder as well as stressing to only ever fill the cylinders very carefully to that carefully calculated figure!!!!!

Any hyper important point with any and all commercial cylinders is to religously ensure they are absolutely and totally empty. I did this by leaving them well away from anything else with the valve fully open and leaving it there until no more gas is escaping. Living, as I do in the countryside, I can safely do this with zero chance of any danger, doing the same on a housing estate or in built up areas could of course have risks.

 

[Pudsey Bear]

Each to their own when you've seen the damage it makes you think even at Calor prices its not worth it and of course anyone doing this has informed their insurance company.

 

[Squiffy]

This is EXACTLY why I stressed calculating the 80% capacity of a 100% empty cylinder as well as stressing to only ever fill the cylinders very carefully to that carefully calculated figure!!!!!

Any hyper important point with any and all commercial cylinders is to religously ensure they are absolutely and totally empty. I did this by leaving them well away from anything else with the valve fully open and leaving it there until no more gas is escaping. Living, as I do in the countryside, I can safely do this with zero chance of any danger, doing the same on a housing estate or in built up areas could of course have risks.

The Tare weights are stamped on the bottles Phil, so if the Tare weight is say 6.56kg and the bottle weighs 6.58kg then to all intents and purposes its empty. But frankly if a bottle has ceased to ignite a gas ring then again to all intents and purposes its empty. By the way I'm not purporting to do this even though I've done it many times years ago, I personally have under slung and get gas from my local supplier or an Auto gas at a petrol station. I'm saying that it's not rocket science to refill a piggy back bottle if you know what your doing. Phil