Battery only lasts 2 years and a bit?

[MarkJ]

My vehicle battery shows signs of dying: voltage is reasonable, but the engine turns over so slowly I reckon it won't start one day.

It's a November 2020 van, but mileage is crazy low - 6,000 - and was hardly used in the first year while I built it, so I'm thinking it's not been discharged and charged enough in that time (though it's had an Ablemail maintainer on it).

Is this the most likely cause, do we think?

 

[Pudsey Bear]

could it be bad earth or dicky starter/solenoid?

 

[Millie Master]

My vehicle battery shows signs of dying: voltage is reasonable, but the engine turns over so slowly I reckon it won't start one day.

It's a November 2020 van, but mileage is crazy low - 6,000 - and was hardly used in the first year while I built it, so I'm thinking it's not been discharged and charged enough in that time (though it's had an Ablemail maintainer on it).

Is this the most likely cause, do we think?

You don't say what make of van.

My Renault Master 100 dci van was doing exactly the same (although it is a lot older) and I traced it down to 2 things.
1. When you lock it, the vans alarm system is still on and that results in a gradual drain, and this will be the same on all modern vehicles.
2. Although it wasn't illuminated as being on, I discovered the radio was on !!

When trying to start the engine, ensure the clutch is fully depressed to avoid mechanical drag.

Phil

 

[MarkJ]

It's a Relay. There is a noticeable drain with alarm etc, but the Ablemail ought to compensate for that, I would have thought.

I tried it again today, the plan being to buy a new battery if it was reluctant to start - and it started first turn, no problem.

No idea why that would be, but I'll just keep an eye on it.

 

[Pudsey Bear]

Sounds like a bad earth to me.

 

[MarkJ]

Sounds like a bad earth to me.

I've seen talk of adding an additional strap, but how you do that given where the battery is (passenger footwell) I don't know.

 

[Pudsey Bear]

There are two straps on the shell, one from the battery to the chassis and then another to the starter motor, I'd check/replace the latter, plenty on Ebay.

 

[Squiffy]

If it is an earth I would suggest just cleaning and tightening the contact areas before you rush out and buy earth straps, a vehicle only two years old is highly unlikely to have a problem with the construction of the strap its self. If it happens again the starter motor bolts should also be checked for tightness as the earth travels through the bolts to maintain a cct when starting, if these are not tight or there is corrosion around the bolt heads this can cause a slow turn over of the engine. Phil

 

[trevskoda]

You don't say what make of van.

My Renault Master 100 dci van was doing exactly the same (although it is a lot older) and I traced it down to 2 things.
1. When you lock it, the vans alarm system is still on and that results in a gradual drain, and this will be the same on all modern vehicles.
2. Although it wasn't illuminated as being on, I discovered the radio was on !!

When trying to start the engine, ensure the clutch is fully depressed to avoid mechanical drag.

Phil

You cause more strain pushing a clutch diaphragm in than any drag on a layshaft doing nothing other than turning a ball race, clutch in is a old school thing that d instructors told you so you would not jump forward if started in gear.

 

[Pudsey Bear]

Is Pressing The Clutch Pedal While Starting The Car In Neutral Necessary?

Many people don't know the basic of why pressing the Clutch Pedal While Starting the Car in Neutral? Read the article and clear your doubts.

carfromjapan.com

 

[Millie Master]

You cause more strain pushing a clutch diaphragm in than any drag on a layshaft doing nothing other than turning a ball race, clutch in is a old school thing that d instructors told you so you would not jump forward if decadently started in gear.

Sorry Trev, but the countless competition engines and transmissions I built and rebuilt in those far off days of my youth and all the mechanics I knew both at the track side in the forests as well as in the garage ALWAYS started the cars they had just built, in neutral with the clutch pressed down, so as to remove all possible links to the drivetrain....................... unless of course you were bump starting the engine.

Phil

 

[Squiffy]

Have to say that my initial action when starting any clutch driven vehicle is to depress the clutch and then move the gear lever into and out of gear to neutral and with the clutch still depressed I start the engine. I suppose this has come about through years of driving customers cars in and out of the garage and test driving, as folk are all different in so much as some leave the car in gear others in neutral and over the years it has become habitual for me to go through this safety process. Phil

 

[Squiffy]

Back to starting again, when last year I began to build my Sis in laws van, after about a week I had to move it to another area on my rear drive, on starting it barely managed to turn over and even though it eventually started I had to recharge the battery over night and most of the next day at which point I moved it back to its original spot on the drive. About a week later I moved it again and once again it barely turned over causing me to have to charge it again so at that point I advised her that she would probably have to buy a new cab battery but that we would leave it till I'd finished the build. By the time I'd finished the build it was well into June and the weather had really warmed up, I charged it up for her and said we would change it after a trip that we had planned to mid Wales her in her van and my wife and I in ours saying that if it let her down we could jump start it for the return journey. We'll we spent three days and her van started fine and we drove back home, she parked up outside her house and I forgot all about it till the next trip out two weeks later and once again it started fine so I advised her that because the temperature was hot, as it was last year, when winter came the battery would probably fail then. But last winter came and it was a cold one here in Wales and the battery was starting the engine fine all over the winter and has done since.

So I really don't know what the problem with the battery was that first month or so of the build? Phil

 

[Pudsey Bear]

A lot of modern cars won't start anyway until the clutch is pressed, as does our Fiesta but I never press the van's clutch.

 

[MarkJ]

If it is an earth I would suggest just cleaning and tightening the contact areas before you rush out and buy earth straps, a vehicle only two years old is highly unlikely to have a problem with the construction of the strap its self. If it happens again the starter motor bolts should also be checked for tightness as the earth travels through the bolts to maintain a cct when starting, if these are not tight or there is corrosion around the bolt heads this can cause a slow turn over of the engine. Phil

Yes, I was thinking the same. Get out the socket set and give everything a good inspection and tightening. Thanks

 

[MarkJ]

So I really don't know what the problem with the battery was that first month or so of the build? Phil

Only two things suggest themselves: one is that these vans are obviously designed to be used (thrashed) day in, day out, not left idle for weeks/months, and quite possibly the charging is designed on that basis.

Secondly, mine has the stop/start stuff, and an 'intelligent' alternator. The idea is that it only loads the alternator when it thinks it needs to, reducing load at other times, and hence emissions. I have a plug-in voltmeter in the 12V socket on the dash, and the way the voltage fluctuates is unfathomable. Broadly speaking, it's at 14.4V for about 10-15 minutes after you start, then drops to about 13.5V for another 10-15 minutes, then goes back up to 14.V for a bit. But it's not quite as simple as that - it varies within those times as well. In other words, I do wonder whether it gets as charged as you much as you might think on, say, a 40 minute journey. The start/stop only seems to swing into action after a long run - 2hours+ - suggesting the battery is not in tip-top shape unless you give it a really good run.

 

[Pudsey Bear]

Our Fiesta has the stop start and it was the same it won't work for a few miles, so we put on a new expensive battery and it's been fine since, we'll never get back the cost of the battery though.

 

[MarkJ]

Get out the socket set and give everything a good inspection and tightening.

Interesting. I found I could put 1/2 or maybe even 3/4 of a turn on the nut holding the -ve battery clamp on. I haven't been into the battery compartment since about 2 years ago when I disconnected the battery to undo the seatbelt pretensioner stuff, and I guess I'd have undone that nut, so I wonder if that's what the problem was. Though I'm sure I'd have left it tighter than it was just now.

It's not like the manual.... there's an Amphenol connector that connects the earth braid to a post, which then goes on to the battery post. It's not a tight fit - you can rotate it - but it's obviously how it's intended to be so I didn't fiddle with it.

Anyway, it started first kick after I'd finished so hopefully it's either gone away or I've fixed it.

 

[Duckato]

@MarkJ
What Ablemail device are you using, I have an AMT12-2 and it wasn’t doing a proper job irrespective of which charging profile I set it to.

Ablemail weren’t interested in helping because I bought it via a third party.
In the end I wasted more money buying their BT interface to find out why, mine had corrupted firmware and some of the default voltages were out. It also has an error measuring the input voltage which meant it thinks the input was too low and hence stopped trickle charging the starter battery prematurely, again via the BT interface I was able to over ride that flaw.

Once reset it’s worked fine ever since but with a total of over £150 down the drain I should have stuck to a diode fuse and bulb which pre lithium had worked perfectly ok!

I notice your van has a smart battery install if you have an AMT12-2 it might be worth experimenting with the non smart profiles and also use the higher power profile as well i.e. the one that’s on for the longer duration.

 

[trevskoda]

Sorry Trev, but the countless competition engines and transmissions I built and rebuilt in those far off days of my youth and all the mechanics I knew both at the track side in the forests as well as in the garage ALWAYS started the cars they had just built, in neutral with the clutch pressed down, so as to remove all possible links to the drivetrain....................... unless of course you were bump starting the engine.

Phil

No faith in the building LOL.