Another Victron Orion thread - sorry

[PeteS]

Anybody know if there is any circumstance when the remote contol (H or L) is disabled? Have I changed a setting which stops this action. My Orion TR Smart is charging at 30 A when H or L are disconnected, no jumper nothing. Soon as I enable the charger it charges.
I thought this was not possible under normal conditions. i'm suspecting a fault. Engine shutdown when enabled stops it charging but then mains charging will start it again.

 

[xsilvergs]

Anybody know if there is any circumstance when the remote contol (H or L) is disabled? Have I changed a setting which stops this action. My Orion TR Smart is charging at 30 A when H or L are disconnected, no jumper nothing. Soon as I enable the charger it charges.
I thought this was not possible under normal conditions. i'm suspecting a fault. Engine shutdown when enabled stops it charging but then mains charging will start it again.

I found the data sheet quite poor in its explanation of the use of the Remote connection.

If it was me I would try connecting the H pin to chassis to turn it off, the data sheet does say it requires a +ve level >3V, so less than 3 may turn it off.

Never a fan of floating pins.

No warranty implied or given with any of my work.

P.S. I fit work please let me know.

 

[PeteS]

I found the data sheet quite poor in its explanation of the use of the Remote connection.

If it was me I would try connecting the H pin to chassis to turn it off, the data sheet does say it requires a +ve level >3V, so less than 3 may turn it off.

Never a fan of floating pins.

No warranty implied or given with any of my work.

P.S. I fit work please let me know.

I can try that but then if that worked it would negate the idea of connecting that pin to ignition to enable it. As does the idea of a switch between L&H to enable it, neither of which work.

 

[SquirrellCook]

What you described Pete, is exactly what I expect would happen. Maybe it would be better to mention what you would like to happen. Then I expect someone could come up with a configuration to make it happen.

 

[PeteS]

I’m trying to enable the charger when the engine is running. At the moment I cannot stop it charging at any time apart from disabling the charger in settings.
I should add I used to be able to. ie it all worked as intended for about a year but something has changed.

 

[wildebus]

I’m trying to enable the charger when the engine is running. At the moment I cannot stop it charging at any time apart from disabling the charger in settings.
I should add I used to be able to. ie it all worked as intended for about a year but something has changed.

Is it still set up as a charge rather than a Power Supply?

If a charger, then your Thresholds are set too low.
If it comes on when you are charging the Starter Battery from mains, that is normal and as you suspect, need to override via the remote connection.

If there is NO plug at all on the green 2 pin connector, the unit is remotely disabled. if it stays on, then I would suspect you have a faulty unit.

It will be remotely disabled if all of the following are true:

1. L and H are not connected together
2. L is not grounded
3. H is not connected to 12V

(lots of double-negatives there If none of 1, 2 AND 3 is not there, the charger should never turn on)

 

[wildebus]

I found the data sheet quite poor in its explanation of the use of the Remote connection.

If it was me I would try connecting the H pin to chassis to turn it off, the data sheet does say it requires a +ve level >3V, so less than 3 may turn it off.

Never a fan of floating pins.

No warranty implied or given with any of my work.

P.S. I fit work please let me know.

If you had to ground H to turn off, then using a D+ or Ignition signal to remotely disable would never be possible so with respect, that solution would mean an extremely poor design. If it worked, then the unit must be faulty.

 

[PeteS]

Is it still set up as a charge rather than a Power Supply?

If a charger, then your Thresholds are set too low.
If it comes on when you are charging the Starter Battery from mains, that is normal and as you suspect, need to override via the remote connection.

If there is NO plug at all on the green 2 pin connector, the unit is remotely disabled. if it stays on, then I would suspect you have a faulty unit.

It will be remotely disabled if all of the following are true:

1. L and H are not connected together
2. L is not grounded
3. H is not connected to 12V

(lots of double-negatives there If none of 1, 2 AND 3 is not there, the charger should never turn on)

Thank you, I do believe its faulty, it is still a charger and even with no plug in it still charges.
What led me to it is for the first time in a year I was driving the van with the temperature hovering around freezing. The battery started to charge once the engine was started despite my temperature controlled relay being off. The relay switched D+ to the H pin when temp above 5C. The battery was at 2C so I think I caught it in time.

 

[xsilvergs]

If you had to ground H to turn off, then using a D+ or Ignition signal to remotely disable would never be possible so with respect, that solution would mean an extremely poor design. If it worked, then the unit must be faulty.

@wildebus I'm guessing you're just a "fitter" not a "technician".

 

[SquirrellCook]

@wildebus I'm guessing you're just a "fitter" not a "technician".

I think what wildebus is saying, is that if a d+ signal was used to turn the Orion off. Switching the ignition off would turn the Orion on.

 

[wildebus]

@wildebus I'm guessing you're just a "fitter" not a "technician".

I think what wildebus is saying, is that if a d+ signal was used to turn the Orion off. Switching the ignition off would turn the Orion on.

What I am saying is that it you had a device that was activated by a D+ (or ignition) signal, and if that was not present, that same input had to be grounded, then that would be a stupid design and would not get out the factory. and if a "technician" designed that, then they need a new job.

There are plenty of examples of devices that use floating lines as a control. Redarc have a product where if a specific wire is pulled high, it means one thing, pulled low it means another, and left floating it means a third setting.

Sorry, but the advice on grounding the "H" line is not correct as a solution. End of.

How the Remote Control works on the Orion-Tr is actually very clever in its flexibility and very easy to use. I have personally used all three ways on them to remotely control one and all worked as they are meant to.

 

[xsilvergs]

Sorry, but the advice on grounding the "H" line is not correct as a solution. End of.

@wildebus I guess you also struggle to read the English language as I do. I wrote "try connecting the H pin to chassis", I also asked PeteS to let me know the results. What were the results? I don't think PeteS needs you to speak for him, he seems quietly very knowledgeable and very modest to me.

Big companies have made big mistakes in the past, don't tell me you haven't?

 

[wildebus]

@wildebus I guess you also struggle to read the English language as I do. I wrote "try connecting the H pin to chassis", I also asked PeteS to let me know the results. What were the results? I don't think PeteS needs you to speak for him, he seems quietly very knowledgeable and very modest to me.

Big companies have made big mistakes in the past, don't tell me you haven't?

I know what you wrote and I don't struggle to read the English Language either. It is poor advice you are giving.
I know the design as Victron provide it works as I have used it in all the different ways. if it doesn't work, the unit is faulty and not down to a design fault.
If the unit does not disconnect if the H is floating (and the L is also not grounded) then grounding the H is irrelevant to anything.

I am not speaking for Pete, I am replying to you.

 

[xsilvergs]

I know what you wrote and I don't struggle to read the English Language either. It is poor advice you are giving.
I know the design as Victron provide it works as I have used it in all the different ways. if it doesn't work, the unit is faulty and not down to a design fault.
If the unit does not disconnect if the H is floating (and the L is also not grounded) then grounding the H is irrelevant to anything.

I am not speaking for Pete, I am replying to you.

 

[PeteS]

Ok lets just put this to bed, I've checked it again with H&L floating, H grounded, L to 12v just to rule out a fault with the impedance detection circuitry at the front end and it always powers up and starts charging as soon as the input voltage or engine shutdown criterias are met.
It is totally ignoring the remote H & L controls inputs, so it is faulty.
Not sure what Victron warranty terms are as far as fixing stuff thats 12 months old so as I'm off to Spain middle of January this may have to be sorted once I get back.

 

[wildebus]

Ok lets just put this to bed, I've checked it again with H&L floating, H grounded, L to 12v just to rule out a fault with the impedance detection circuitry at the front end and it always powers up and starts charging as soon as the input voltage or engine shutdown criterias are met.
It is totally ignoring the remote H & L controls inputs, so it is faulty.
Not sure what Victron warranty terms are as far as fixing stuff thats 12 months old so as I'm off to Spain middle of January this may have to be sorted once I get back.

Do you recall who you bought the Device from? (asking this as for me, I am never sure as I use 4 or 5 different distributors). If you are not sure, or if it was not from a major distributor, you could use this support form to check who you need to speak to: https://professional.victronenergy.com/support/

The unit will have a 5 year warranty so you should have no issue having the problem sorted.
Depending on the seller, they may want it back to check and see if they can fix (checking for setup type issues generally), or they may just send out a replacement directly on getting the unit back. I doubt a distributor will attempt any physical repairs of an Orion-Tr as they have their own warranty with Victron and will send back to them.

I would think if you get this back to the supplier in the next week and tell them you need it sorted or replaced by the first week in January that should be doable?
As you said though, you do have a workaround by using the App to turn off the charger, so you could go safe and wait until your return.
I've only had a couple of Victron faults (which is why I like them so much) and both times the problems were sorted very fast by OnboardEnergy (supplied a replacement MPPT and then credited me back when they got the faulty one back) and Alpha Batteries (sent a new BMV-712 out for me to replace the faulty one when I had access to it), so response has been very good in my own experiences.

 

[st3v3]

Not sure what Victron warranty terms are as far as fixing stuff thats 12 months old so as I'm off to Spain middle of January this may have to be sorted once I get back.

All I can tell you for sure is the box for my IP22 smart charger says 5 year warranty. I'd get in touch as above and explain the situation

 

[PeteS]

It came from Onboard Energy who are 30 minutes up the road so depending upon which way the conversation goes I could drop it off and collect a replacement else I'll wait

 

[wildebus]

It came from Onboard Energy who are 30 minutes up the road so depending upon which way the conversation goes I could drop it off and collect a replacement else I'll wait

The main guy at onboard will be able to check it out while you wait for sure so I would definately remove it from the van and take it there (make an appointment first though as he can be hard to pin down )

 

[st3v3]

I have 12V in, 24V out.

I did wonder if I could directly connect my 24V D+ signal to DISABLE the charger...

Using a 24V relay as it stands.