Victron defeat....

[MarkJ]

Try as I can, I just can't get my head around all the VE.xxx stuff: VE.Bus, VE.Direct, VE.Can - and what the hell is nmea2000 ?

I can't find a simple description of how these bits are supposed to work together - or not - despite trawling the Victron stuff.

Anybody know a link to a 'Noddy goes Victron monitoring' website?

Thanks!

 

[wildebus]

#1 - forget NMEA2000. not important

#2 - VE = Victron Energy;

#3 the .Direct, .Can and .Bus after the VE part - just different connectivity standards used by Victron products. Think of it like Video Tape Players. These may have a SCART connector, or a Composite Video connector or an HDMI connector depending on age or model - different cables to connect something to a TV to watch a video. Just alternative ways to achieve the same goal. Same as the Victron kit and their standards.

There are obviously technical differences between the different connections and what they can do, but which one you use depends on what the product is. You don't get to choose the type, that depends on the device you have (have a look here for a list of the most common products and what cable standard it uses - https://wildebus.com/store/index.php?route=product/product&path=83&product_id=136 . It is not a complete list (inverters for example have a variety depending on model and age))

Two ways to talk to Victron Devices remotely
a) Bluetooth - using Victron Connect App on Phone/Tablet
b) Wired via Cables to Venus Device and then view - via Wireless/Network using Victron Venus via Web Browser

Typically you would only use a wired connection if you are connecting a device to a Victron Venus device (Venus devices are the central hub which reads the data from devices connected to it and records it).
If you don't have a Venus device (Venus GX, CCGX or a Raspberry Pi maybe) then you would use the Bluetooth Victron Connect method. There are only two common things you would get that involve worrying about those cable standards when using Victron Connect
1) VE.Direct to Bluetooth Dongle - use to add bluetooth capability to VE.Direct devices that don't have it
2) VE.Bus Smart (Bluetooth) Dongle - same as above but for VE.Bus devices


Finally, if you don't use Victron Venus or Victron Connect, you would use whatever switches/buttons/jumpers on the device to work it manually at the device. In this case, the unit is standalone and the cable connection type is irrelvent.

HTH

 

[MarkJ]

Wow, thank you. That is helpful.

My preliminary kit list includes a Victron MPPT, a Multiplus and the new Orion-Tr DC-DC Charger, so the easiest would be to get 1 x VE.Bus Bluetooth Smart Dongle (for the Multiplus), the other two are Bluetooth ready, so I can use Connect. £45 and I'm done.

But I quite fancied using a Raspberry Pi 3B which I already have, but I see the Orion is Bluetooth only, so I'd have to spend probably dozens of man hours getting it working via Bluetooth!

So, now just the BMV 712 to think about.

Thanks for your help....

 

[wildebus]

The Venus OS system is wired connection only and Bluetooth doesn't currently (and I am sure never will) feature, so I would say you are on a good track there to get fully setup on Connect for under £50

I think it is always worth to get a Bluetooth enabled version where possible regardless (so BMV-712 rather than BMV-702 for example) as you get both options available for future proofing PLUS (and I didn't make this point actually) the VE.Direct devices CANNOT currently be configured via the Venus System even if connected, but must be configured manually or Victron Connect - so even if you have your MPPT cabled up to a Venus device, you still need Bluetooth to setup and adjust (annoying and Victron will eventually be changing that I think, but no timescale for that)

 

[MarkJ]

Great! Sorted then.

Thanks very much.

I’ll start saving up....

 

[Nabsim]

Brilliant explanation Dave. I must say I have been put off Victron products by their labelling. I don’t think it’s is at all clear what you are buying unless you want to learn about the product. It’s more for commercial users/fitters than joe in the street.

 

[wildebus]

Brilliant explanation Dave. I must say I have been put off Victron products by their labelling. I don’t think it’s is at all clear what you are buying unless you want to learn about the product. It’s more for commercial users/fitters than joe in the street.

Something that I am sure confuses people who are not pretty familiar with the Victron range is the naming...

Victron use the term "Smart" to denote Bluetooth compatibility. So if some device has "smart", it is bluetooth, e.g. the "SmartSolar" Solar Controllers. And if it is not "Smart", then it is "Blue" (Maybe because the Victron product colours are always blue?), so the NON-bluetooth Solar Controller is called a "BlueSolar" Solar Controller.
I bet plenty of folk know Victron make Bluetooth compatible units, see the word 'blue' in the product name, put 2 & 2 together and make 3 due to no real fault of their own
And the mains Chargers confuse the situation... the non-Bluetooth ones are called "BluePower", so the Bluetooth ones are called "SmartPower" yes? Nope, they are called "BlueSmart" . Clearly that was a bit of a mistake I would say and kind of self-rectified by Victron recently discontinuing the "BluePower" range almost entirely, but renaming the "BlueSmart" to be "SmartPower" would make sense to me.

The Inverter labelling can confuse to a degree as they are probably the on!y company that label their outputs in VAs (VoltAmps) and not Watts. A VA value is invariably greater than a Wattage rating so some may say they are exaggerating the capabilities when people are just comparing numbers e.g. a Hokicokie 3000 against a Victron 3000 (which is actually 2,400W), but in technical terms a VA is a more accurate measure and Victron are an engineering company not a marketing one.

One final one which is kind of amusing .... They make a Multiplus inverter/Charger and a Quattro Inverter/Charger . The difference between the Multi and the Quattro is the Quattro has two mains inputs. So why not a "Duo" say then? Well it also has two outputs. So 2+2 = 4 . And we are back near the start

 

[Nabsim]

Ha ha crazy from a marketing view but it depends who they are targeting. I know they lost me as a customer almost day one I started to look at changes. I know folks were saying they were good but I found them hard work back then.

At least I understood the limitations and advantages of the BMV by the time I went for one. Must admit I did miss solar setting and it had me puzzled for a couple of days when it gave me a SOC of 100% when I knew it couldn’t be possible. If I had fitted it in the summer when solar harvesting is good I may not have picked upon it lol

 

[SquirrellCook]

Something that I am sure confuses people who are not pretty familiar with the Victron range is the naming...

You forget Dave, we're talking about a Dutch company, just imagine it could be twice as bad

 

[SquirrellCook]

I know they lost me as a customer almost day one I started to look at changes.

Should this not be an example of why you should research a product before buying it.
I was told a story by a Castrol ex chemist. And also had an experience to back it up. Sales and marketing often do not use or consult the chemist when making claims about a product! Had a similar problem last year with industrial products from Morris oils.

 

[Nabsim]

It was at the research stage they lost me, first couple of things I chose weren’t what I was after whereas I found it easy to chose on the Votronic site. Now I may not have looked at the right products but Victron should have made it easier.

Anyway enough negatives, I am happy with what I have and I am sure I would have been happy with Victron as well