Is it realistic to go all electric and no gas?

[forager]

Due to change in circumstances (house sale fallen through), considering building a stealth camper for say, 50/50 split of wild camping and campsite. (May also tow a caravan at times and live in that during the winter)

Has to be fairly simple with regard to washing and cooking etc. Van probably won’t be big enough for a shower and that’s probably beyond me. Fixed bed, under bed storage, WC, fold up sink and single hob. 2 x water containers under sink for fresh and waste water?

Is it realistic to go all electric and no gas? Keep it simple, no gas, no flues, and generator similar size as 2 x gas bottles?

Yes a generator can be noisy and annoying but if wild camping and no one nearby, a well silenced generator should not be a problem.
When on campsite, use hook-up.

2000 watt suitcase silent generator, built in to further sound-proofed box. Box completely sealed to internals of van. Box externally ventilated, air inlet to engine, exhaust pipe to external. Could be used in transit? Would need to be a generator with its own forced air cooling fan and preferably electric start, is there such a model?

5 litre, 1500 watt, insulated catering urn (next to sink) for hot water/quick wash and drinks (£85)
(Unused hot water poured in to flask and used for drinks) Just need cold water tap to sink?

12 and 240 volt fridge (how many amps at 12 volts?)

1500 watt single hob for cooking by pressure cooker
3000 watt single hob (when using suitable electric hook-up)

2 x 110 A/H leisure battery, 12 volt lighting, 12 volt fridge, 300 watt pure sine wave inverter for electronics (charged from van or generator)

Not bothered about a TV, laptop goes 10 hours on a charge.

Not really interested in solar panels for this particular application where there is ample power from a 2Kw generator.
(Additional work, high cost, low output, selective weather required, wind noise and drag)

Thinking about a diesel heater, believe fairly simple to fit, interested in best type?

May be able to fit the generator, petrol can and diesel heater all in the same sealed box to keep the smells out of the van?

I wild camp at present with just a petrol stove so this lot will be luxury.

Constructive ideas welcomed, thanks

 

[Sky]

Hardly constructive, but I can't resist - maybe you should consider towing the generator and give the caravan a miss?

There are many posts on the site about batteries, solar power (I know you're not that interested in that, but may be worth a look) and the up/downside of inverters. Just do a search and you'll be amazed.

One thing's for sure - this thread may start a few disagreements.

Good luck with it anyway.

:camper:

 

[FULL TIMER]

It's definitely possible, as for heating I prefer Eberspacher but webasto and Mikuni are also very good , you can even get a diesel fuelled hob which is totally sealed from the van interior but for simplicity it might be worth looking at one of the Origo range that use bio ethanol this is just one model ORIGO 1500 1 BURNER SPIRIT HOB STOVE COOKER - BOAT COOKER - NEW - P240 | eBay there are also two burner ones and ones that fit into a worktop. As well as our motorhome I also have a SWB Renault Traffic that I intend converting using no gas appliances.

 

[DTDog]

I can't give you figures, but only some personal experience.

A few years ago, we bought a caravan which was 'European' and was geared around only having EHU (Electric Hook Up) and as such everything ran from either 12v (lighting) or 240v (heating, both water and blown air). It did have gas cooking.

I looked in to the costs of either an good quality inverter (3000watts) and running THREE 110amp batteries and charging these from a generator when needed.
I ended up fitting a gas water heater that also supplied hot air to the blown air system and found this to be more economical than going the way you intend.
Gas (I'm sure) works out much cheaper per therm than electric (which in your case has had to be converted first from petrol in to the generator to create electricity and then from electric in to heat). Gas, lights and creates heat! While your generator is creating heat that you aren't able to use.

you say about 'keeping it simple' re not fitting gas, but then go on to say that you will have to vent the box for the generator. It's not as frightening as it might first appear to install gas around the van and I think would be more benefit in the end.

I wish you luck which ever way you choose and if you do decide to go the 'full electric way' it would be interesting to know how you get on.

 

[snowbirds]

Duel fuel

Hi Forager

We only do three months away at a time,but could not do with out gas,a better and quicker heat.we have a full duel fuel with a Honda 1000 generator backup but have only used three times in four years, but it's only any good for a backup.maybe if you have a wood burner it will help but it's all down to living on or off of camping sites.We split it with a bit of each and would like to do more off line but with safety in mind.I would like to go for solar and wind power but it's all at a cost and Gas Refillable is still cheap at about 8-10 Euros.To spend £600-or £1000 for solar or wind and still be down on the power I will still go for gas,it's at every service station in Europe. To get a better set up I would have to chop my van in for a model that is £20,000 pounds more.

Snowbirds.

Due to change in circumstances (house sale fallen through), considering building a stealth camper for say, 50/50 split of wild camping and campsite. (May also tow a caravan at times and live in that during the winter)

Has to be fairly simple with regard to washing and cooking etc. Van probably won’t be big enough for a shower and that’s probably beyond me. Fixed bed, under bed storage, WC, fold up sink and single hob. 2 x water containers under sink for fresh and waste water?

Is it realistic to go all electric and no gas? Keep it simple, no gas, no flues, and generator similar size as 2 x gas bottles?

Yes a generator can be noisy and annoying but if wild camping and no one nearby, a well silenced generator should not be a problem.
When on campsite, use hook-up.

2000 watt suitcase silent generator, built in to further sound-proofed box. Box completely sealed to internals of van. Box externally ventilated, air inlet to engine, exhaust pipe to external. Could be used in transit? Would need to be a generator with its own forced air cooling fan and preferably electric start, is there such a model?

5 litre, 1500 watt, insulated catering urn (next to sink) for hot water/quick wash and drinks (£85)
(Unused hot water poured in to flask and used for drinks) Just need cold water tap to sink?

12 and 240 volt fridge (how many amps at 12 volts?)

1500 watt single hob for cooking by pressure cooker
3000 watt single hob (when using suitable electric hook-up)

2 x 110 A/H leisure battery, 12 volt lighting, 12 volt fridge, 300 watt pure sine wave inverter for electronics (charged from van or generator)

Not bothered about a TV, laptop goes 10 hours on a charge.

Not really interested in solar panels for this particular application where there is ample power from a 2Kw generator.
(Additional work, high cost, low output, selective weather required, wind noise and drag)

Thinking about a diesel heater, believe fairly simple to fit, interested in best type?

May be able to fit the generator, petrol can and diesel heater all in the same sealed box to keep the smells out of the van?

I wild camp at present with just a petrol stove so this lot will be luxury.

Constructive ideas welcomed, thanks

 

[Firefox]

It could work. I thought about plumbing my 1 KW Honda genny fixed into the van including exhaust, but decided it was too much hassle.

Gas is made for motorhomes and is cheap. You don't get so much wastage. Your genny is inefficient, chucking out exhaust heat you can't use.

Say for example two gas appliances use 0.2g per hour combined (Typical). You'll get 30 hours continuous from a 6kg bottle costing £8 to £22 depending how you fill up/exchange.

Running at 1500w may get you 4 hours on 4 litres of fuel (Honda figures). The same 30 hours will cost you 30 litres of fuel at £40. I'm assuming you can run the same couple of appliances off your 1500w - maybe 1400w for a hob and 100w for a fridge.

These are just ballpark figures, but the bottom line is that petrol is going to cost you 2 to 5 times the price compared to gas.

 

[noarlunga]

It's definitely possible, as for heating I prefer Eberspacher but webasto and Mikuni are also very good , you can even get a diesel fuelled hob which is totally sealed from the van interior but for simplicity it might be worth looking at one of the Origo range that use bio ethanol this is just one model ORIGO 1500 1 BURNER SPIRIT HOB STOVE COOKER - BOAT COOKER - NEW - P240 | eBay there are also two burner ones and ones that fit into a worktop. As well as our motorhome I also have a SWB Renault Traffic that I intend converting using no gas appliances.

I bought one of those Origo stoves to replace the old double spirit burner that I have. The trouble is that it burns the spirit itself rather than burning the spirit vapour and consequently smokes up the pans. I consigned it to occasional use in my boat and went back to the old double spirit burner for a while until I can find a good vapour burning replacement.

I've got a Webasto diesel air heater fitted which I'm very pleased with although it could do with some extra silencing. I'm quite tempted by the idea of a diesel fuelled hob.

Johnny A

 

[vespalien]

We have a friend with an "all electric" boat. You need a man-sized generator for electric cooking. Even a microwave needs around a kilowatt, but a couple of hotplates on will probably need several Kw, then add the same again for a kettle & grill.

 

[forager]

It's definitely possible, as for heating I prefer Eberspacher but webasto and Mikuni are also very good , you can even get a diesel fuelled hob which is totally sealed from the van interior but for simplicity it might be worth looking at one of the Origo range that use bio ethanol this is just one model ORIGO 1500 1 BURNER SPIRIT HOB STOVE COOKER - BOAT COOKER - NEW - P240 | eBay there are also two burner ones and ones that fit into a worktop. As well as our motorhome I also have a SWB Renault Traffic that I intend converting using no gas appliances.

Thanks, that's really interesting and very compact for 2Kw, a double burner would be pretty good too, and no gas bottles, will have to give that some thought. I have a Renault Trafic LWB and really like it but not quite big enough so thinking about a high roof of similar size or a Renault Master about 18" longer.

 

[forager]

I can't give you figures, but only some personal experience.

A few years ago, we bought a caravan which was 'European' and was geared around only having EHU (Electric Hook Up) and as such everything ran from either 12v (lighting) or 240v (heating, both water and blown air). It did have gas cooking.

I looked in to the costs of either an good quality inverter (3000watts) and running THREE 110amp batteries and charging these from a generator when needed.
I ended up fitting a gas water heater that also supplied hot air to the blown air system and found this to be more economical than going the way you intend.
Gas (I'm sure) works out much cheaper per therm than electric (which in your case has had to be converted first from petrol in to the generator to create electricity and then from electric in to heat). Gas, lights and creates heat! While your generator is creating heat that you aren't able to use.

you say about 'keeping it simple' re not fitting gas, but then go on to say that you will have to vent the box for the generator. It's not as frightening as it might first appear to install gas around the van and I think would be more benefit in the end.

I wish you luck which ever way you choose and if you do decide to go the 'full electric way' it would be interesting to know how you get on.

Thanks for the reply, I take your point and was slightly expecting to get converted to gas, has to be a reason why most people use it but thought electric was worth discussing further

 

[forager]

Hi Forager

We only do three months away at a time,but could not do with out gas,a better and quicker heat.we have a full duel fuel with a Honda 1000 generator backup but have only used three times in four years, but it's only any good for a backup.maybe if you have a wood burner it will help but it's all down to living on or off of camping sites.We split it with a bit of each and would like to do more off line but with safety in mind.I would like to go for solar and wind power but it's all at a cost and Gas Refillable is still cheap at about 8-10 Euros.To spend £600-or £1000 for solar or wind and still be down on the power I will still go for gas,it's at every service station in Europe. To get a better set up I would have to chop my van in for a model that is £20,000 pounds more.

Snowbirds.

Thanks very much for the reply, good to hear that you have both and still prefer gas. Yes I thought wind and solar a bit expensive for the limited power available.

 

[forager]

It could work. I thought about plumbing my 1 KW Honda genny fixed into the van including exhaust, but decided it was too much hassle.

Gas is made for motorhomes and is cheap. You don't get so much wastage. Your genny is inefficient, chucking out exhaust heat you can't use.

Say for example two gas appliances use 0.2g per hour combined (Typical). You'll get 30 hours continuous from a 6kg bottle costing £8 to £22 depending how you fill up/exchange.

Running at 1500w may get you 4 hours on 4 litres of fuel (Honda figures). The same 30 hours will cost you 30 litres of fuel at £40. I'm assuming you can run the same couple of appliances off your 1500w - maybe 1400w for a hob and 100w for a fridge.

These are just ballpark figures, but the bottom line is that petrol is going to cost you 2 to 5 times the price compared to gas.

Thanks, it's starting to look like gas or the spirit hob and diesel heater. Not quite sure how the water heating works, could manage by heating on the hob. Is there one that just heats the water as it passes through or does that need a header tank and feed? Presume they need water pressure and knock off when the pressure goes?

 

[forager]

I bought one of those Origo stoves to replace the old double spirit burner that I have. The trouble is that it burns the spirit itself rather than burning the spirit vapour and consequently smokes up the pans. I consigned it to occasional use in my boat and went back to the old double spirit burner for a while until I can find a good vapour burning replacement.

I've got a Webasto diesel air heater fitted which I'm very pleased with although it could do with some extra silencing. I'm quite tempted by the idea of a diesel fuelled hob.

Johnny A

Thanks for that, so they don't burn the same spirit? One maybe ethanol and the other say meths? Could be worth looking at the diesel fueled hob to see how it works, wondered if that would do the cooking and heating in a very small van? Or even if you had both, it's still only one fuel supply and that's already on board. Does anyone know where best to tap in to the diesel without affecting warranties and insurance, could do with coming out of the tank on it's only supply rather than tapping in to the engine feed?

 

[forager]

It's definitely possible, as for heating I prefer Eberspacher but webasto and Mikuni are also very good , you can even get a diesel fuelled hob which is totally sealed from the van interior but for simplicity it might be worth looking at one of the Origo range that use bio ethanol this is just one model ORIGO 1500 1 BURNER SPIRIT HOB STOVE COOKER - BOAT COOKER - NEW - P240 | eBay there are also two burner ones and ones that fit into a worktop. As well as our motorhome I also have a SWB Renault Traffic that I intend converting using no gas appliances.

Just looked them up and the flush mount dual hob looks brilliant for the amount of space it takes up. Says it works with meths so a should be clean burning and safe? do they smell at all? Unbeatable for simplicity and safety, even if it costs a bit more to run.

 

[yorkieowl]

Personally wouldn't do without the gas, bought a generator when we got the van, have used it maybe twice, found it was very inconvenient, noisy and smelly, don't need to bother with a water heater, just boil a kettle on a gas hob. One point if you do go generator route when wildcamping at least you wont be bothered with other vans parking too close to you.:lol-053:

 

[Siimplyloco]

Personally wouldn't do without the gas, bought a generator when we got the van, have used it maybe twice, found it was very inconvenient, noisy and smelly, don't need to bother with a water heater, just boil a kettle on a gas hob. One point if you do go generator route when wildcamping at least you wont be bothered with other vans parking too close to you.:lol-053:

I sold my Honda EU2.0i last month. Used it twice in four years!
John

 

[whitevanwoman]

I only have a camping gas stove in my van, using butane canisters and I manage fine, being careful to save spare hot water in flasks. Actually I have 2 gas stoves, the other is my reserve stove, a Coleman mountain stove which uses mixed butane and propane so it works better in colder weather.

For heating I use a bio ethanol stove, a small cast iron chimenea about 18 inch high, works a treat, gives out heat and then remains hot for another hour after fuel is burned out, like a radiator. Haven't had any problems with smoke deposits, and if the fuel is pure you shouldn't get any but it depends what you are using as a wick.

Got ventilation and carbon monoxide alarm but it has never gone off in 2 years.

I also have a Ghillie Kettle which I use outside to heat water for washing as much as possible, it's free heat and quicker than using gas for same volume of water.

I have 85 battery with plug in led lights, mini 12volt fridge in summer which works only when engine is running, through split charge relay, I use the battery for charging mobile and laptop and for stereo, and have plenty of spare power most days. I also have a plug in portable 13 watt solar trickle charger from Maplins to keep either battery topped up and it will also charge laptop (not much charge this time of year but it is putting some charge in but works well in spring, summer and autumn).

A basic, simple, cheap system which works for me but might not suit others. Am not quite full-timing but nearly, I go home about one or two nights a week for bath and washing machine. So far the winter hasn't been cold and I may find it difficult if it turns cold for a few weeks.

 

[FULL TIMER]

Just looked them up and the flush mount dual hob looks brilliant for the amount of space it takes up. Says it works with meths so a should be clean burning and safe? do they smell at all? Unbeatable for simplicity and safety, even if it costs a bit more to run.

Havn't actually used one yet but I do have a bio ethanol heater that works well and is virtually odourless in use and safe, these stoves are designed for boats so must be suitable for the job and probably safer than gas on a boat. They actually recommend using de natured alcohol which I think is basically ethanol probably be much better and cleaner burning and maybe safer than meths. the blurb from Origo
A hot meal on a boat or RV makes enjoying the outdoors even more delicious. But stoves using traditional cooking fuels such as butane or propane pose the risk of explosion. This is eliminated with the non-pressurized alcohol stoves that are designed to prevent fuel from leaking out, even if it's turned completely upside down. Ultra-reliable and environmentally friendly a non-pressurized canister system eliminates the pumping, priming, hoses and valves of pressurized systems. We offer a variety of alcohol stoves in portable and built-In design. Denatured alcohol is a safe environmentally friendly, clean cooking fuel and can be easily extinguished with water.

 

[noarlunga]

Thanks for that, so they don't burn the same spirit? One maybe ethanol and the other say meths? Could be worth looking at the diesel fueled hob to see how it works, wondered if that would do the cooking and heating in a very small van? Or even if you had both, it's still only one fuel supply and that's already on board. Does anyone know where best to tap in to the diesel without affecting warranties and insurance, could do with coming out of the tank on it's only supply rather than tapping in to the engine feed?

I can use either meths or bio-ethanol in either of the stoves. As far as I know, meths is similar spirit to ethanol but with methyl alcohol added to make it non potable. I use the same fuel that is used in fires, such as whitevanwoman describes. Meths is smelly; bio-ethanol less so.

As far as tapping the diesel is concerned, the best place seems to be at the point that the fuel comes out to power the van. Mine is tapped along side that outlet but the tube only reaches part way into the tank so that you can't burn away enough to not be able to start the engine.

I did a search on diesel hobs and came across some adverse comments on a boat forum.

Check out Wallas diesel hob/heater

Johnny A

 

[FULL TIMER]

If fitting a diesel heater etc they all supply a fitting or standpipe that fits into the top of the tank, some vehicles you can't tap into the fuel lines as they are pressurised this includes some of the Renault master range, easy enough to do once the tank is off but really need access to a ramp to get the tank off easily.