Inverter help needed

[Pudsey Bear]

I have had to buy a mobility scooter for me to use with the van and need to charge it when driving, I have a new 300w pure sine wave inverter that plugs into the dash socket, but I don't think this will do for this charger.

So I need to know what would be the quickest way to sort this problem out I only got the scooter yesterday and we go away on Thursday and will be off grid for 4 weeks so no EHU at all.

Also can I get away with a plug in dash type, as it'll only be charging while driving or do I have to struggle and fit a hard wired one?

this is the charger:-

 

[Nabsim]

I replied on you other thread on WC. I used a Bestek 300W modified sine wave inverter to charge my Pride GoGo Traveller mobility scooter for a couple of years okay. Plug it in and see what happens, worse case is it won’t do anything or Weill beep and turn off, at least that’s what I experienced when I plugged in the 2 hour fast charger that came with my new escooter.

Dave did make me up a couple of sockets in a binacle, wired and fused for 30amp that I connected to the hab battery bank though as I think my mob scooter may have been more than my cigar sockets gave

 

[Pudsey Bear]

Thanks, that's the same inverter I bought, BarryD recommended them, but I didn't have the scooter then.

 

[Sprinter 1 cup]

Is there a picture of the plug that connects it to the scooter
The box is shit for quick charging its only 2 amp an hour. your thave to go for a long drive . I think my b2b vuctron is 30 amps. At 12v and 24v..is your van 12 or 24 volt ?

get a fast charger 12 to 24 and make sure it over over 10 amps., would be my thinking. Not a inverter.

 

[Pudsey Bear]

Is there a picture of the plug that connects it to the scooter
The box is shit for quick charging its only 2 amp an hour. your thave to go for a long drive . I think my b2b vuctron is 30 amps. At 12v and 24v..is your van 12 or 24 volt ?

get a fast charger 12 to 24 and make sure it over over 10 amps., would be my thinking. Not a inverter.

I can post a picture of the plug, it has three pins if that helps, van is a standard Ducato 12v system, not sure what you mean by "get a fast charger", wouldn't that just make my needs higher?

 

[wildebus]

If it were me, I would use it via the dash socket for the immediate trip (the draw you have on the Bike Charger is within its capability) but I would also plan on the longer term on fitting a lead on the Leisure Battery for the Inverter, probably using 50A Anderson Leads.
This will allow a quick connect/disconnect so you can plug in as needed and also will allow you do use the Inverter at its full power (300W is well beyond the capability of the 12V sockets and you might have reason for using the inverter at higher power at some time and so may as well prepare for that load).

I know there are quite a few people who advocate using DC-DC adapters instead of Inverters and their AC-DC transformers and they are likely a little more efficient but as you already have the AC adapters for the Bikes (and maybe Laptops, and countless other small mains appliances), the extra cost of getting individual DC-DC adapters for each device compared to a single Inverter which will work with what you have, as well as what you might get in the future is much greater than the small increase in power used by an Inverter, so I always use the supplied AC adapters for my e-Bikes, Laptop, Power Tools Battery Charger, etc.
The only time I have binned the AC adapter for a straight DC solution is for the Amazon Alexas where they are so low power, having an inverter on all the time just for those would be too wasteful.

 

[Pudsey Bear]

If it were me, I would use it via the dash socket for the immediate trip (the draw you have on the Bike Charger is within its capability) but I would also plan on the longer term on fitting a lead on the Leisure Battery for the Inverter, probably using 50A Anderson Leads.
This will allow a quick connect/disconnect so you can plug in as needed and also will allow you do use the Inverter at its full power (300W is well beyond the capability of the 12V sockets and you might have reason for using the inverter at higher power at some time and so may as well prepare for that load).

I know there are quite a few people who advocate using DC-DC adapters instead of Inverters and their AC-DC transformers and they are likely a little more efficient but as you already have the AC adapters for the Bikes (and maybe Laptops, and countless other small mains appliances), the extra cost of getting individual DC-DC adapters for each device compared to a single Inverter which will work with what you have, as well as what you might get in the future is much greater than the small increase in power used by an Inverter, so I always use the supplied AC adapters for my e-Bikes, Laptop, Power Tools Battery Charger, etc.
The only time I have binned the AC adapter for a straight DC solution is for the Amazon Alexas where they are so low power, having an inverter on all the time just for those would be too wasteful.

So basically, plug it in and get on with it?

I (using my one remaining braincell) got the requirement to be 360w IE 240v x 1.5a = 360w, did I get that wrong? or are the numbers on the charger more incomprehensible/complicated? it's the one thing I struggled with on my self build, fuses, cable sizes, not for the weak minded, work of the devil.

 

[wildebus]

So basically, plug it in and get on with it?

I (using my one remaining braincell) got the requirement to be 360w IE 240v x 1.5a = 360w, did I get that wrong? or are the numbers on the charger more incomprehensible/complicated? it's the one thing I struggled with on my self build, fuses, cable sizes, not for the weak minded, work of the devil.

Basically, Yes Though it is always worth double-checking something if in doubt.

As someone mentioned on the thread on the other forum, the 1.5A was for the lower voltage. The Adapter is a world-wide compatible one (for when you are cycling all over the place) and will take anything from 100V to 240V.
The Current quoted is the maximum possible amperage - and for a given Wattage, the maximum amps are always with the lowest Voltage (Ohms law ... P=IV, and also P/V=I. So (P=IV) 150W = 100V x 1.5A. Then (P/V=I) 150W/230V = 0.65A)

These input numbers tend to be worst-case transient surge numbers - What is best to look at really is the DC output as that makes more sense on just about all transformers. Yours says 24V @ 2A = 48W.
Add in losses in the transformer (say 25% as likely inefficient) and you will be pulling 60W from the AC supply (inverter or mains).
Add in Inverter losses (say another 25%) and you will be pulling 75W from the battery (about 6A on a 12V DC system).
The 12V sockets tend to be rated at 120W/10A (Your 12V dash socket might be like mine though? rated at 180W (although I don't think I would try it at that power!)) so you are within quoted parameters.
The biggest problem with those sockets can be the dreadful connection between socket and plug. Some plugs are just terrible; some sockets are not that good either (VW Transporter ones are unbelievable poor). Using an Anderson Plug setup in the future will give you a very reliable quick-connect.

What is worthwhile having I think is a some kind of AC Power Monitor such as one of these plug-in "watt meters" - https://amzn.to/3u49gIe .
Plug this into the house AC socket, plug in your eBike Charger and battery and you will see the AC current drawn, the power in watts and also very interestingly the total Watt-Hours taken to charge the battery (can use for things like Laptop chargers as well for example).
Useful to know just how much that really takes to charge the battery and help you decide when to plug it in (you might find it is low enough to charge a bit without solar or driving sometimes?).
You would need to add 25% on top for inverter overhead though of course.

 

[Pudsey Bear]

Thanks, although there was an awful whooshing sound reading that I got the gist of it, just so I don't screw up could you link to one of those meters so I actually get the right type please, I do have a ciggy lighter display that tells me the amps draw and volts input.

 

[Pudsey Bear]

Bloody blind bear, just seen the link

 

[Pudsey Bear]

Ordered.

Thanks so much to everyone for responding, especially our Mr Bus, sometimes you can Google or YouTube for info, but this is seriously specialist stuff, you either know or you don't, I didnae.

 

[Pudsey Bear]

Scooter in the van now, plugged into EHU on the drive for now.

Next we have to get into possible Li-ion refurbishing as it's a 3 year old scooter and no idea how well the battery has been treated and having looked up how I should be looking after it lots of different opinions, so I intend to use it for now, run it down and charge it fully 3-4 times and hope it lasts a while as new ones are frighteningly expensive, and it's not even that big.

 

[wildebus]

depending on the make and model, it could be worth checking AliExpress ref the battery. a lot of these things comne out the same Chinese factories with different names and a big price hike. you might find a "white box" version of the same battery for a lot less money?

 

[Pudsey Bear]

Hmm, worth a look when I get back, I'll see if there are any specs on the battery, but the scooter like everything these days came from China.

Basically this venture is all suck it and see, I hope to get out of the van for longer and see more, if the scooter isn't really up to it it's in good nick and I got £400 quid of the online price so I wouldn't lose out, and like MoHos the prices are lower in winter.

 

[Nabsim]

Are you sure it’s Li-on? Mine was lead acid when I took the battery box apart and I replaced with equivalent in Lifepo4 for around £100 just before pandemic hit.

 

[Nabsim]

Is there a picture of the plug that connects it to the scooter
The box is shit for quick charging its only 2 amp an hour. your thave to go for a long drive . I think my b2b vuctron is 30 amps. At 12v and 24v..is your van 12 or 24 volt ?

get a fast charger 12 to 24 and make sure it over over 10 amps., would be my thinking. Not a inverter.

If it’s the same as my mobility scooter you can’t fast charge it according to the bumf you get with it. I think mine runs at 36v just to be awkward but can be charged via 12v adapter or 240v. Using inverter and 240v brought mine to full in 6 to 8 hours. Strangely it took longer if I used 12v charger.

 

[Pudsey Bear]

Are you sure it’s Li-on? Mine was lead acid when I took the battery box apart and I replaced with equivalent in Lifepo4 for around £100 just before pandemic hit.

 

[Sprinter 1 cup]

If you already have inverter use it . That charger is over night use not between stops in van. But looks like a nice seat for outside van ! Lol
Photo of the plug .lol
The plug that go's into the mobility scooter not the vans inverter. Will it take 20 / 30 amps ??????

 

[Pudsey Bear]

Sorry, took picture but brain fart means not posted it.


It has to be done when driving, I suppose I could fit another Leisure battery, the one we have is only 100ah as it's more than enough up to now, but I have no idea what sort of capacity I would need to do it via the LB and 85w solar.

And I was stupid enough to think I was sorted Grr.

 

[Pudsey Bear]

The plug that go's into the mobility scooter not the vans inverter. Will it take 20 / 30 amps ??????

What's the reason behind the question there?

I'm also looking at some sort of ramp to get it in there, it's a bit heavy for lifting without pain, 500mm max at the door, maybe ply?