Insulation for extreem cold.

Haaamster

Hi all,i'm looking for advice on insulating my van for ski trips.Its a 1994 Fiat Ducato van but being Italian made it is not really suitable for minus temperatures as I found out last year in Germany, I had ice crystals on the inner walls.
As I am about to alter the inside I think this is the ideal time to insulate it properly. I don't want to take the panels off the wall but wondered if I could cover the exiisting wall in that silver insulation sheets and add another thin panel over the top.
Sounds a silly idea but i'm sure someone will know what i'm attempting to say.
Any help appreciated.
 

donkey too

I insulated mine with second hand sheeps wool packaging. The kind that comes in sheets of wool packed between two layers of polithene, tthat frozen ood companies pasck round their products to post them. It comes in sheets about a foot wide and three feet long. Brilliant stuff. If like me you get your sausages etc., from dukeshill on line they use loads of it. and you will have the pleasure of eating the best sausages and black pud as well as bacon and ham in the UK.:bow:
If you dont want to remove the panels then there is some stuff used in the biulders trade that squirts into cavities and turns to foam. can't remember what its called but any decent biulders merchant bshould put you on the track. I did use some in hard to get at places.(No rude comments please)
 

Harmergeddon

have done many trips to the alps snowboarding in various vans and can tell you that if you want to be warm you will have to remove your side panels and insulate properly. Airtec or other simillar silver foil bubble wrap style insulation, even two laters of it all over is no way near good enough once the temps fall below -5 on a regular basis.
My current van is done with a combination of 50mm kingspan in the roof and sides, 25mm kingspan in the floors with spray foam and rock wall insulation filling all the hard to reach cavities, then the whole lot was wrapped in silver foil bubble wrap to provide a vapour barrier.
See here Sprinter Conversion MK2 - Sprinter-Forum

Trust me on this if you want to keep heat in the van in the cold do it properly.
 

Firefox

What is behind your panels between those and the metal vehicle body, you didn't say?

Silver bubble wrap will not add much extra on its own and with a panel van you are eating into your interior space. You'd probably be better upgrading or improving the insulation behind your lining panels.
 

Dezi

Hi, The Murvi has standard van insulation ( not as good as coachbuilt panels) but with the WEBASTER heater set at anti frost ( low)

overnight we have found ourselves to comfortable enough in temps as low as -12.

Dezi


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Haaamster

Thanks for all the replies folks, Harmergeddon that looks an ideal solution so I think it's the way to go.
Donkey how many sausages would I need to eat in order to get enough sheeps wool to line my van :eek:
 

donkey too

Haaamster said:
Thanks for all the replies folks, Harmergeddon that looks an ideal solution so I think it's the way to go.
Donkey how many sausages would I need to eat in order to get enough sheeps wool to line my van :eek:
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Well I collected enough wool in two years from my own deliveries and my mates. Mind you we buy all our meat from dukes hill as well as cakes, puddings hams and pies etc. We just can't stand the rubbish that local shops sell.:lol-053:
 

Tony Lee

Biggest problem with vans is regardless of how much foam you inject into cavities, there is still the metal frame providing a cold path from the metal exterior to the interior and if there is only a thin sheet of plywood or similar on the inside, it will get cold enough to form condensation or even frost along where the framework is.

Proper job requires insulating the cavities plus fitting lining that has sufficient insulation to isolate the cold-bridging problems. Probably needs to be vapour proof as well, otherwise the water vapour just passes through and condenses inside the wall - eventually causing corrosion.
 

Firefox

Yes, a coachbuilt with insulation sandwich panels is much better for cold weather.

With a panel van you're fighting not only the metal frame, but also you start with a smaller interior space. Unless you compromise your layout space by adding an extra 40-50mm lining you are going to have to put up with some condensation. But that can be minimised by attacking on the other two fronts, ventilation and heating.
 

mrbigglesworth

camping mats for insulation

As a base layer/vapour barrier foam camping mats from a pound shop are a good start. Use a high temp. glue at the corners and edges. Fix pieces on on the metal van struts etc. before lining with board.

Use kingspan or cellotex as a bulk filler or have it foam sprayed ( then no vapour barrier needed ).

For sheet lining I used 3.6 mm ply from Travis Perkins (£13 50 for an 8 by 4 sheet with a trade card- just ask for one.). Then carpet or vinyl or whatever on top.

For all the best info. go to the SBMCC site. It's worth joining for at least a year for the discounts from it's listed trade suppliers alone.

Mr B.
 

Haaamster

Sorry folks I appear to have given the wrong impression when I called it my van,it's not a metal van, it's a coach built Fiat Ducato that is already fitted with floors,walls etc.
My intention (if it's possible) is to remove all the seating,cupboards,hob sink etc and add batons with 50mm of kingspan over the existing wall and then another panel over the insulation.
I know there will be an issue when it comes to the door and windows but surely this can be overcome.
 

channa

I full time in a Fiat Ducato coachbuilt so share your dilemma.

In my experience it is not so much the coachbuilt area that is the issue, but more the cab itself which in reality is a standard Fiat cab. I had thought of introducing some kind of sliding door to seperate the two. I cant see it being the biggest of jobs and perhaps using some sandwich tecchnique in the middle of the door for additional insulation.

The coachbuilt area if anything suffers from over ventilation far more than is required by gas regs, But I dont see there is much that can be done about this aspect

Channa
 

Dezi

Hi, we had a similar problem when we had an Elddis 270 about 20 years ago. My solution was to buy a waterproof picnik rug.

Fit to press studs to the upperbunk area & in the evening hang the rug up, waterproof side towards cab. The small gas heater kept lounge

area very snug.

Dezi
 

RomaDenizen

hang the inner skin of a large tent inside your vehicle, and do a double skin if you like. Ensure there is at least a centimetre or two between the skin and the wall/ceiling surfaces inside your vehicle. This will minimise draughts. When you think about it, arctic explorers and mountaineers stay in tents, its all a question of detail.
.
you can also use a smaller tent inner lining for your bed, it would look like a mosquito net but would be very cosy. You would feel like a medieval king.
 

Tony Lee

I guess you can always compensate for deficiencies in insulation by cranking up the heat, but one area where this may not work is with your water system. Anywhere a water line is resting up against bare metal, or even thin fibreglass, the water is going to freeze solid. Even your main water tank will do that if insulation is poor and there is no source of heat to keep it above freezing. Some winter campers just winterise their rig and rely on bottled water kept inside or purchased daily. Adding a skirt around the bottom of the vehicle to keep the wind blowing under will help a little bit, but even that will only delay the inevitable.
 

RomaDenizen

wear an extra jumper and carry a hot water bottle !
.
only kidding, have you thought about solar panels ? ski holidays always have great daytime sunshine, charge up the power and release it in the evenings.
 

Dezi

RomaDenizen said:
wear an extra jumper and carry a hot water bottle !
.
only kidding, have you thought about solar panels ? ski holidays always have great daytime sunshine, charge up the power and release it in the evenings.
Click to expand...

Hi, only kidding or not you have the right idea. We have several sets of wolsey thermals (passion killers)but they do an excellent job of keeping you warm.

I simply assumed that people would wear these as a matter of normal wear when venturing into the high mountains during the winter months - we do.

Dezi
 

ellieloy

if you want to double up your insulation, line out with the silver insulation stuff that you can get from good DIY outletsand builders merchants, and then add your fibre insulation - whether man made or lambs wool. We used this stuff on a wooden constructed extension at our place in Scotland, and the temperature went up by ten degrees! - it was amazing, you coud actually feel the difference almost imediately
 
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