Gas connections!

RogueCamper

#1
Hi I'm new here, I am converting a exLWB crafter into a motorhome.
I am doing the gas at the moment, I am pretty competent and will have it all checked and pressure tested at the end.
It is a fairly simple set up,
-gas bottles at the back, 8mm pipe running the length of the van to a 2way manifold
-One outlet to a spinflo triplex cooker, one to a Dometic fridge.

I obviously need 2 straight couplers to connect my appliances to my copper pipes but the inlet pipes on the cooker and fridge
Seem to be stainless steel??
My question is do you use steel compression coupler and olives or a copper one.
Will a copper coupler bond to the steel pipe, and visa-versa.
Or can you use a steel coupler with a copper olive on the copper pipe side??
No one seems to mention this being an issue, they just say- connect the appliance....
Any help appreciated
Grant
 

witzend

Full Member
#2
Brass joiner with what ever olive comes with it
 

RogueCamper

#3
Thanks for answer, do you use brass on your copper to copper connections too, or just final one to the appliance.
Also, am I right that the inlet pipes are steel on these appliances it certainty looks like it
 

hextal

Full Member
#4
Maybe a daft question but do you have the appliances yet? Only ask as mine came with the male, female connector parts and olives / bite-rings.

The only connector I needed to get for an appliance was for the gas hob as it was a domestic half inch bsp so I needed to step it down to 8mm.

Edit. Also, don't forget to fit a pressure test point. Arguably not essential, but for the couple of quid it costs it makes life easier later on.
 
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n brown

Full Member
#5
don't know if it's steel seems to be, but as Witzend says, use whatever olive comes with the joint. i get my 8mm connections from Screwfix and they have brass olives, so that's what i use. i have a feeling you may be worrying about different metals reacting with each other. never known it happen in gas piping in vans
 

countrycruisers

#6
Gas pipe materials

Hi as a gas safe engineer I can confirm there is a BS for the fittings that can be used. I will check on the BS tomorrow in work.
The fittings must have soft copper parallel olives the type found in WADE brass fittings. They are more expensive than your Screwfix fittings. They are available from BES online.
You use the same fitting to connect the bundy tube on appliances.
Hope this helps
 
#7
Hi as a gas safe engineer I can confirm there is a BS for the fittings that can be used. I will check on the BS tomorrow in work.
The fittings must have soft copper parallel olives the type found in WADE brass fittings. They are more expensive than your Screwfix fittings. They are available from BES online.
You use the same fitting to connect the bundy tube on appliances.
Hope this helps
We have always used wade type brass fittings from various leisure industry suppliers but it seems in more recent times many fittings now come with either a brass or steel alloy ? type olive especially the Truma gas manifolds etc, but then a lot of the german vans that come in also have steel piping ,lost count of how many german vans I've had come in with rusted through pipe work especially where the connection is made to the Truma heaters under the van. Worth any Hymer owners checking this if they find they are having problems with gas appliances
 

RogueCamper

#8
Maybe a daft question but do you have the appliances yet? Only ask as mine came with the male, female connector parts and olives / bite-rings.

The only connector I needed to get for an appliance was for the gas hob as it was a domestic half inch bsp so I needed to step it down to 8mm.

Edit. Also, don't forget to fit a pressure test point. Arguably not essential, but for the couple of quid it costs it makes life easier later on.
Yes I do have the fridge and the cooker both just have bare pipe unfortunately, I was hoping they would come with connectors!

I will defo put in a test point, thanks.
Still deciding on whether to get a bulkhead regulator with a built in test point and pigtails or stick with the old way of rubber hose/regulator as I have
A few of them already for various countries.
In which case I'll put a test point in where I convert to the copper
 

RogueCamper

#9
Hi as a gas safe engineer I can confirm there is a BS for the fittings that can be used. I will check on the BS tomorrow in work.
The fittings must have soft copper parallel olives the type found in WADE brass fittings. They are more expensive than your Screwfix fittings. They are available from BES online.
You use the same fitting to connect the bundy tube on appliances.
Hope this helps
Thanks for that. I will check the wade fittings out, I was looking at fittings at Rainbow conversions.
I was mainly just thrown buy the appliances having no connectors and steel pipes as I thought any connectors needed to be of harder
Alloy than the pipes to compress them properly, so I thought that connector would have to be steel. But was concerned that it might not
Seal to the copper pipe properly
They do sell steel 8mm connectors at leisureshopdirect.
 

RogueCamper

#10
don't know if it's steel seems to be, but as Witzend says, use whatever olive comes with the joint. i get my 8mm connections from Screwfix and they have brass olives, so that's what i use. i have a feeling you may be worrying about different metals reacting with each other. never known it happen in gas piping in vans
I thought screwfix would only do 10mm and up.
I was more concerned with the joint sealing properly to 2 types of pipe and that there might have been a specialized connector when to connect steel to
Copper
 

countrycruisers

#11
Gas connections

It is very difficult to explain via text what is required to conform to the correct requirements.It does take a long time to train to become qualified.
There are so many little requirements that would take an age to explain. The most important points are fluing ventilation and installation. As Gas fitters we have the obligation to protect Life and Property when installing pipework and appliances.
It is very important that the system is installed to the correct BS.
Regards
 

RogueCamper

#12
It is very difficult to explain via text what is required to conform to the correct requirements.It does take a long time to train to become qualified.
There are so many little requirements that would take an age to explain. The most important points are fluing ventilation and installation. As Gas fitters we have the obligation to protect Life and Property when installing pipework and appliances.
It is very important that the system is installed to the correct BS.
Regards
Thanks for your help and concern, I understand that there is a lot more to it than just making a few connections and in certainly don't want to endanger any lives ( or property) I just want to do as much of it as a I can safely myself and at least make sure that I have all the right components so that when I do get it checked and tested I won't have to rip it all out.
I also got my local library to source the BS1949 booklet for me to read before doing any work.
Thanks for your answers

P.S. do you do gas installations/testing in campers yourself, and if so you're not based in the south east by any chance?
 

RogueCamper

#13
Doh

Strike that, I just looked at your profile and see that you are in Wales.
Thanks for the advice
 

countrycruisers

#15
Gas connector

Bingo!!! I have just printed out the BS 1949:2011+A1:2013 section 7.3.1 states 'Metallic fittings shall be of the following types (see figure 7)'
Fig 7 gives a pictorial of 5 different fittings that can be used. a) Cutting ring type. b) Capillary type c) Flared type d) Compression type e) Threaded type.
Section 7.3.2 Then states 'In addition, the following requirements shall apply:'
' fittings using rubber or plastic seals shall be used only for the connection of cylinders and pressure regulating systems;'
' plastic fittings shall not be used'
'dimensions of cutting ring fittings shall comply with EN ISO 8434-1'
'where cutting ring fittings are used in conjunction with copper pipe, a brass insertion sleeve and brass cutting ring shall be fitted unless copper pipe complying to EN1057, specification R 290 is used. When using cutting rings all components shall be matched, i.e. of the same series'
'capillary type fitting shall comply with EN 1254-1 and shall be jointed by hard soldering;'
'flared type fitting shall comply with ISO 8434-2'
'compression fitting EN 1254-2;'
'threaded fitting for nozzle EN 1254-4 or EN 10226-1;'
'for caravan holiday homes only, other connections may be used, if they are in accordance with national standards.'

Above is word by word of the british standard for fittings in a Leisure accommodation vehicle.
So if you use compression fittings to EN 1254-2 you will be using the right fittings made to the correct standard.
The screwfix link you have placed on the page above looks as if the fitting has the correct EN 1254-2 therefore it is suitable to use. It is also suitable to connect to the steel bundy tube on your appliances.
Hope this helps
 
#17
Yes same fittings for copper pipe don,t forget the drop out holes under all joints
 

RogueCamper

#18
Bingo!!! I have just printed out the BS 1949:2011+A1:2013 section 7.3.1 states 'Metallic fittings shall be of the following types (see figure 7)'
Fig 7 gives a pictorial of 5 different fittings that can be used. a) Cutting ring type. b) Capillary type c) Flared type d) Compression type e) Threaded type.
Section 7.3.2 Then states 'In addition, the following requirements shall apply:'
' fittings using rubber or plastic seals shall be used only for the connection of cylinders and pressure regulating systems;'
' plastic fittings shall not be used'
'dimensions of cutting ring fittings shall comply with EN ISO 8434-1'
'where cutting ring fittings are used in conjunction with copper pipe, a brass insertion sleeve and brass cutting ring shall be fitted unless copper pipe complying to EN1057, specification R 290 is used. When using cutting rings all components shall be matched, i.e. of the same series'
'capillary type fitting shall comply with EN 1254-1 and shall be jointed by hard soldering;'
'flared type fitting shall comply with ISO 8434-2'
'compression fitting EN 1254-2;'
'threaded fitting for nozzle EN 1254-4 or EN 10226-1;'
'for caravan holiday homes only, other connections may be used, if they are in accordance with national standards.'

Above is word by word of the british standard for fittings in a Leisure accommodation vehicle.
So if you use compression fittings to EN 1254-2 you will be using the right fittings made to the correct standard.
The screwfix link you have placed on the page above looks as if the fitting has the correct EN 1254-2 therefore it is suitable to use. It is also suitable to connect to the steel bundy tube on your appliances.
Hope this helps
Fantastic you are a legend!
Will check out screwfix, but there are quite a few bits I need and BES ,that you mentioned have most of them at a very good price...
 

RogueCamper

#19
Yes same fittings for copper pipe don,t forget the drop out holes under all joints
Cheers, yep they are in already, by the gas bottles, manifold, cooker and fridge.
Think I'll go for the bulkhead regulator and pigtails instead of rubber hose too.
 
#20
Think I'll go for the bulkhead regulator and pigtails instead of rubber hose too.
Yes thats a matter of personal choice but regulators aren,t any more expensive than pigtails and bulkhead regs are costly and there have been reports of problems with them
 
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