Critique on a Sprinter XLWB Camper plz

paganpilgrims

Hello everyone, I was wondering if you could have a look at and make comments about this layout that I have been working on.

It's to scale and proportionate (probably 1 cm = 1pixel or something)

The windows and overhead storage are representative of positioning not where they physically go.

View attachment 20446
 

paganpilgrims

ah the silver box split into 4 is a gas hob, the sink is the silver thing under the shelf next to the rear bed, it's got main sink, utility in the middle and draingin board on left.
 

jennyp19

My only critism is that I wouldn't want to be walking through the shower area
 
n brown

n brown

Forum Member
I'm not doing too well on reading the plan.it seems awfully full ! there seem to be 4 side facing seat belted seats and 2 forward facing,and I don't get the shower area . how about telling us how many are going camping in it ?
 

Rodeo

So are you standing in the shower area to use the sink and other stuff in that area? .
Are side facing seats legal to travel on? Its quite difficult to travel facing sideways without being able to see out easily, also in my experience , even hardy travellers get travel sick in that position.
 
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paganpilgrims

It's just for 2 of us, but I wanted the flexibility of it being able to carry a lot of people, we frequently do daytrips with friends and not a lot of people drive.

Ok the shower part, I saw something similar in a professional conversion of a fiat. Essentially the shower is simply a wet room floor with edging and grey water plug hole. it's about combining dead space for two purposes, it's not a cubicle. One of the things we have experienced in the caravan is the tiny shower room, its just a waste of space, too small to adequately clean oneself.

So in mode 1 it's just a floor with an edge around it and a curtain rail in the roof. its the floorspace in the kitchen.

In mode 2, we attach a curtain and the sink taps would be multi function with the shower head hidden in a recess in mode 1:
41LFwLJLp2L.jpg

So we mount the showerhead appropriately in the temp cubicle.

Sadly because of my sleeping disorder (trashing around and sleep walking) my fiance and I sleep separately, hence the requirement for extra space for a seperate bed space.

But again, to maximise the usage of space, its a floating bed, which is winched up into the ceiling for the daytime and when there are passengers.
 
oldish hippy

oldish hippy

Forum Member
probaly like japense version where there is a panel which slot into top of shower tray to make a level floor and shower tray is like a large sink with a lip round it
 
Wooie1958

Wooie1958

Forum Member
You might want to look at getting some of the weighty items a little more forward than you are planning.

Having everything Fridge, Gas Box, Water Tank, Battery Bank and Motorbike either on or hanging out to the rear of the axle might cause a problem.

Looking at your plan i presume you are having 4 Batteries ? if you could get them forward that would help a lot, they could equate to approx 100 Kgs.

I would work out the weight of the items and load the van with the equivalent rear of the axle as per your plan and have a trip to the Weighbridge.

P.S.

I can`t see any provision for a Waste / Grey Water Tank.
 
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Rodeo

I can see the merits of the shower area idea.Seen similar , permanently fitted,but in the rear corner, with one rear door forming the sidewall, and access through the shower.
The 2 seats by the SLD ...are they really needed? They may be more hindrance than help when trying to manouver around.I think its ok to do a plan like this, but theres a lot of unforseen probs with sizing and positioning vs necessity when you are actually standing in it.My personal opinion is, that all those seats are going to be too cluttered and take up too much 'footfall' space.Ive always been put off by shower curtains, as they always seem to go manky quite quickly!
 
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hextal

Be very very careful with the build weight. The larger the van the less payload it can generally carry as more is given away to the body weight.

Lots of very heavy things chucked right at the very rear will likely unsettle handling a bit too. Looks like thick end if quarter ton in the back before even looking at build or payload.
 
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mark61

mark61

Forum Member
The rear overhang on those extra long Sprinters is huge. I would definitely be concerned about so much weight behind the rear axle. Even assuming it's within the weight limits of the 5 Tonne version I still think you'll be affecting handling considerably.
I would want to be getting gas, water tank and batteries way up front.
 

paganpilgrims

Oh really, wow I didn't realise that. I always assumed you wanted your weight on the driving rear axle!

Yes, I was looking at the seats in the front I was thinking about leaving enough space for the side door to be of some use for loading.

I think I can have another look at it and post up another mock-up.

Cheers all, it's been really useful.
 

hextal

A bit of a rambling set of thoughts in no particular order (apologies that its very long-winded):

One thing worth considering (if not already done) is popping along to a motorhome show or dealership and noting all the things you like and all the things you dont like with vans of similar size.

Whilst my van is only a MWB i've been conscious to not cram it with things so that it looks airy - and also so that you can really slouch on the seating. Daft as it sounds it looks more spacious on the inside than many much larger vans as it's relatively lightly stocked. I've looked at a lot of pro-builds and almost without exception they feel very cramped, regardless of size. I think what the pro-builders appear to do is crow-bar every possible item into the van (without thinking how accessible or usable they are) then fill the entire remaining space with storage. At the same time they build so heavy that the payload is miniscule.

While dinette table/seat layout are popular there is no slouch-ability (I need to use that word more) and there is often some knee knocking.

Do you need as many belted seats as you have - 8No. by looks of things? Might the space be better used assuming fewer travelling persons? If you get rid of the smaller benches then the wood-burner becomes more of a feature, rather than crammed in between other items. what if the dinette became an L shaped seating area (with a removable table) so that it effectively pointed at the wood-burner. You could lounge around with a drink on the sofa in front of the wood burner with the side door open looking out over the scenery. Damn - is it too late for me to fit a wood-burner now??!!

Do you need as much cupboard space as you have?

Worth considering where you position any full-height wardrobes/walls as they really cut-down on the through-view and make things look a little more claustrophobic.

Another common shortfall in pro-builds is lack of worktop space of any kind for food prep etc. It's worth considering giving yourself some elbow room.

In terms of kitchen kit, domestic hobs/sinks/ovens/taps are generally better built and cheaper than the 'motorhome' equivilents. Most domestic gas appliances come with LPG jets and with the addition of £5 worth of adapters can connect direct to 8mm copper pipe.

You've lots of windows - just double check your van bracing etc. Also bear in mind that while seitz type windows are double glazed they are not as good as a wall of insulation, so there is a wee trade off in heat retention with so many. Also remember that the window behind the sliding door is best as a sliding type rather than top hinged - just to stop you forgetting that it's open and putting the side door through it.

What is the GVW of the van - if its 3.5t then I think you've only got circa 1t for payload and build so you'll need to be very careful. If it's the 5t thats not such a problem. In terms of weight distribution, also bear in mind the individual axle capacities. In terms of weight placement for handling it can be quite a science, but broadly speaking the ideal is to have as much weight between the wheels as possible (this is why mid-engined cars are said to handle well), Too much load at the front and the front of the van will wash-out more easily on bends, too much over the tail and the back end will more easily slide due to the pendulum effects, particularly on a rear wheel drive as yours sounds to be. Whilst neither of these are good, a front end wash-out is generally easier to correct.

Depending on the layout underneath and whether you want an underslung gas tank, you may want/need to relocate the spare wheel.

Is it worth undermouting the waste tank?

Shower/toilet tend to have mixed views, some people can't live without them in the van, on the flip side, a lot of people don't use them at all - so they basically just take up usable space.

Probably sound daft but just let the layout bubble away in your head for a while, thinking about accessing things etc, you'll find you'll keep tweaking things as you think about it. It's a lot easier than tweaking during the build.
 
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paganpilgrims

thanks hextal, some really good advice there. I'll reply in full later but basically the layout was designed for our needs and styles, I have been to a few caravan parks and poured over lots of layouts on websites.

The design was made with a few factors in mind:

1) multipurpose spaces as much as possible

2) needs 2 beds

3) many seats

4) ample power

5) flexibility in heating / fuel sources.

6) open plan where possible.
 

Rodeo

My 2p !........rambling as well!..
cupboards above the seating may make it difficult to get in and out of the window seats, especially with the table up.And especially for adults.
Why not convert the o/s seating into the bed with the table dropping between the seats to form the bed?.seems a lot of work to make the pull up bed, and would probably take as much time to drop the bed as it will to make up the bed daily as I described.
Why the seats by the SLD ?
 

Roger

Take a look at Interior pictures of my van for sale » Sprinter Westfalia Westfalia have been making campervans since the 1950s (I think) on the VW Kombis originally, but now do the Sprinters.

As others have said - water and batteries in the middle of the van to keep weight distribution. If you want to make really sure that weight is correctly distributed there are plenty of formulae available on the 'net that you can enter into a spread sheet and work out how much weight goes onto the front axle. https://til.scania.com/groups/bwd/documents/.../bwm_0000461_01.pdf

Having a wet area with shower curtains is a recipe for problems with either rust or flooring getting affected by water - stick with a fibreglass shower cubicle for longevity and privacy, they double as a toilet as well. Many of the shower cubicles come with pre moulded sinks/toilets/mirrors/lights. Put a vent in the van roof and those human smells wont be a problem either.

Side facing seats are these legal and how will you mount them, you need substantial mounting points in the floors for front facing seats - side facing would be even harder to make comply - they are pretty useless as well if you do have an accident as seat belts work on forward movement of the passenger and not sideways movement. I think I'd put two Rock N Roll bench seats facing forward, with inertia reel belts - only two seaters as you need space to walk down the living area. Have a look at some photos of late 1980s James Cooks on the Merc T1 Chassis.

Rock N Roll seats/beds are the way to go if you want to maximise space. Have a look at some of the older James Cooks with single seat/bed RnRs.

You can put a shelf above the driving cabin and convert that to a bed with a simple slide out.

Gas - put a gas tank under the vehicle, fill up with Autogas, far easier than bottles even with Autogas fillers.

Cabinetry - door cutouts need to be rounded and the doors (when closed) fit inside the cutout, this strengthens the cabinetry and will make it last 30 plus years, plus you wont have doors falling off when you drive down a cobbled road.

Wiring, isolate your 12V and 240V circuits, 240V circuits should be in conduit.

Flooring - one layer of 3mm Masonite, one layer of 19mm fibreboard, one layer of 3 mm Masonite, then vinyl floor on top. Use the Masonite to layout your floor, where gas, water and power lines will cross the floor.

Use T bolts to hang anything on the underside.

Two vents - one at lowest point, one at highest point - always open.

Open fire inside a camper van is not a good idea in my opinion, if you need heat buy a combo water and hot air heater that works off diesel from the vehicle tank - cheap running costs. While I'm at it, buy a Webasto diesel cooktop and then you don't have to worry about gas at all if you have a good compressor fridge.

My two bobs worth as well.
 
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