Calorifier advice needed

[Tim S]

Morning all

Recently bought a 55 litre Surecal Calorifier.

Just wondering if anyone's fitted one to their vehicle and how they went about plumbing it in.

Any advice welcome!!!

Tim

 

[Obanboy666]

Morning all

Recently bought a 55 litre Surecal Calorifier.

Just wondering if anyone's fitted one to their vehicle and how they went about plumbing it in.

Any advice welcome!!!

Tim

Showing my ignorance, what's a Calorifier ? Some type of heater or similiar ?

 

[Nesting Zombie]

Hi ya,
That's a Big Calorifire matey, Just as a side note consider the extra Weight of the Unit, it's Pipework & it's capacity in water (possibly some 70kg) added to your vehicle weight !.
In addition, Having a large amount of Water being Heated, Allowing to Cool, Sat for a Bit then re heated may have Bug or Bacteria issues etc as it's the Perfect conditions for them !.
I had a 25ltr Calorifire fitted in my boats, Ample for two showers. But I'm sure you've done your calculations.
So anyway.
Is it Single or Twin Coil ?.
Twin will allow Engine connection options !, Although it might take up to 2hrs of Driving or Engine time to heat that amount of water !.
12v or 230v Element ?.
Again This would take a bit of Battery or Genny time, & Would be a BIG consideration in What other things your running on 230v if on EHU to stop it tripping !.
What Boiler or ways to heat water do you have ?.
Have you got a Pressurised or Demand water system ?.

 

[maingate]

Showing my ignorance, what's a Calorifier ? Some type of heater or similiar ?

It's a heat exchanger.

In this case the engine coolant is run through the vessel which heats up the water in it.

I have one fitted to my van (not the same type as the OP) it is linked in to the Alde Boiler. I can arrive somewhere with a boiler full of hot water.

 

[Tim S]

Thanks for all the replies. It's appreciated.

Yes, it's a large one. Perhaps I've overestimated the sizing?!

There'll be me, the two kids and the GF, so I was anticipating using plenty of water. Maybe I should consider a downsize!!

It's twin coil, 240v. I'm planning on tapping into the van's water cooling system. Just wondering if the engine driven pump will suffice? Some say it will, others not.

Not much else will be running on 230v. Maybe a handheld Dyson but that's only when it's charging, obviously.

Tim

Hi ya,
That's a Big Calorifire matey, Just as a side note consider the extra Weight of the Unit, it's Pipework & it's capacity in water (possibly some 70kg) added to your vehicle weight !.
In addition, Having a large amount of Water being Heated, Allowing to Cool, Sat for a Bit then re heated may have Bug or Bacteria issues etc as it's the Perfect conditions for them !.
I had a 25ltr Calorifire fitted in my boats, Ample for two showers. But I'm sure you've done your calculations.
So anyway.
Is it Single or Twin Coil ?.
Twin will allow Engine connection options !, Although it might take up to 2hrs of Driving or Engine time to heat that amount of water !.
12v or 230v Element ?.
Again This would take a bit of Battery or Genny time, & Would be a BIG consideration in What other things your running on 230v if on EHU to stop it tripping !.
What Boiler or ways to heat water do you have ?.
Have you got a Pressurised or Demand water system ?.

 

[Nesting Zombie]

Well as far as the Engine Pump is concerned, Size of Engine, & how long it's run will be the governing factors in efficiency. Helped by if you can site the EXTRA insulated Tank close, Keep the INSULATED Pipe Runs short, then it would probably be ok. But will take a while to heat !.
What would you connect your other coil to ?.

 

[scsmyth]

Hi Tim
I have installed a 22l surecal twin coil into my converted ducato. The coolant lines are plumbed in parallel with the dash heater matrix using tee pieces before the lines enter the bulkhead. I have fitted a 12v normally closed solenoid valve into the supply to allow control via the cab. The coolant feed and return are routed down the bulkhead and under the floor, going through the floor at the calorifier. The lines are insulated with pipe lagging where possible. Both coils are plumbed in at the moment in series as I have no other means of using the other coil and this should increase efficiency with the single engine feed.
The calorifier is mounted towards the front of the vehicle but this still has about 8m total hose run to and from engine. It works very well with no extra pump fitted. I have a tank full of hot water after 30 minutes driving. It started out as an experiment really. I wasn't sure how well it would work in a van situation but it has exceeded expectations. I was worried about the engine taking longer to heat up due to the calorifier, this was the reason for the 12v solenoid valve. Once the engine is up to temperature I can turn on the feed to the clarifier.

A bit of a fiddle to install and setup but well worth it.
Cheers
Sean

 

[Tim S]

Thanks

Hi Sean

Many thanks for taking the time to respond. It's really appreciated!

It sounds as though you have everything working really well! I take it the solenoid in the cab is a simple on/off switch that dictates whether you want the Calorifier to be used or not??

It also sounds as though 22 litres is enough for me too. I've sent back the 55 litre one and have gone for 22 litres instead. I'm just deciding if I should go single or twin coil, as I will only have one heat source: the engine. Did you go for an expansion tank/accumulator as well??

Thanks again

Tim

Hi Tim
I have installed a 22l surecal twin coil into my converted ducato. The coolant lines are plumbed in parallel with the dash heater matrix using tee pieces before the lines enter the bulkhead. I have fitted a 12v normally closed solenoid valve into the supply to allow control via the cab. The coolant feed and return are routed down the bulkhead and under the floor, going through the floor at the calorifier. The lines are insulated with pipe lagging where possible. Both coils are plumbed in at the moment in series as I have no other means of using the other coil and this should increase efficiency with the single engine feed.
The calorifier is mounted towards the front of the vehicle but this still has about 8m total hose run to and from engine. It works very well with no extra pump fitted. I have a tank full of hot water after 30 minutes driving. It started out as an experiment really. I wasn't sure how well it would work in a van situation but it has exceeded expectations. I was worried about the engine taking longer to heat up due to the calorifier, this was the reason for the 12v solenoid valve. Once the engine is up to temperature I can turn on the feed to the clarifier.

A bit of a fiddle to install and setup but well worth it.
Cheers
Sean

 

[Polar Bear]

PERSONALISED CHRISTMAS EVE GIFT BOX | XMAS FAVOUR PRESENT | WITH BOW | eBay might be needed depending on where you fit it?




Link? hows that work then?????

 

[Tim S]

Hey, thanks for the response.

I'm going to fit the tank under the vehicle (loads of room). It'll be in a jacket and mounted in a box. I'll lag all the pipes and keep them short.

I'll be running both coils from the engine in series.

If I buy a diesel heater in the future then I'll use the other coil for that.

Thanks for responding!!


Tim

Well as far as the Engine Pump is concerned, Size of Engine, & how long it's run will be the governing factors in efficiency. Helped by if you can site the EXTRA insulated Tank close, Keep the INSULATED Pipe Runs short, then it would probably be ok. But will take a while to heat !.
What would you connect your other coil to ?.

 

[Nesting Zombie]

Well, I think thats probably the best solution for an installation of that size, it will be brilliant to get an update on how your doing & it's performance,& your location when Wildeing so I can pinch your surplus Hot water at night !. (I've only got 6lt !).
Good luck.

 

[scsmyth]

No problem Tim. Sounds like swapping for the 22l might be a good idea, be much quicker to heat. I went for twin coil as doesn't cost much extra and means it is more versatile - room for adding additional heat source if desired. Also I think having the coils in series will improve heat up time with the engine considerably as it is effectively doubling the surface area of the heat exchanger.

This is the valve used to turn supply on/off:

Solenoid Operated ON/OFF Heater Valve - Car Builder Solutions - Kit Car Parts and Accessories

It is mounted just after the tee from the heater supply hose under the bonnet. I have it wired via a switch in the cab which is supplied from a 12v ignition live.

I have an expansion vessel and accumulator installed on the fresh water plumbing side. The expansion vessel needs to be plumbed in downstream of the calorifier hot water take off. I had to adjust the pressure in mine as it was initially too high meaning the pressure relief valve was opening rather than the expansion vessel doing its job. This will depend on your water pump pressure. The accumulator is fitted just after the water pump outlet although could be installed anywhere on the primary cold water feed. Your water pump type will determine whether this is necessary. If it is a basic pressure switch type then the accumulator smooths out pressure spikes and stops any hunting from the pump.

The 230v immersion heater is wired into the consumer unit via a 5A MCB. Again this seems to work well.

One thing you may need to think about mounting it under the floor is thermo syphoning. I have heard of this problem in boat installations where the calorifier sits below the engine block and as the engine cools overnight it causes a thermo syphon - effectively cooling the calorifier hot water prematurely. My coolant hoses run below the engine then up to the calofifier which gives the horizontal hose run as the lowest point in the system and there hasn't been any problem with thermo syphon.

 

[witzend]

For shower mighten this be a easier option 8L Tankless Propane Gas LPG Instant On-Demand Hot Water Heater With Showers | eBay

 

[hairydog]

I once had a motorhome with one. Hot water for an hour or two after you've driven for an hour. No hot water in the morning when you want a shower. I removed the calorifier and set up the gas water heater that had been fitted many years earlier, but never plumbed in.

Hopefully your one will have some effective insulation to keep the water hot. That motorhome was imported from Australia and was probably used to cross deserts.

 

[Chindle257]

No problem Tim. Sounds like swapping for the 22l might be a good idea, be much quicker to heat. I went for twin coil as doesn't cost much extra and means it is more versatile - room for adding additional heat source if desired. Also I think having the coils in series will improve heat up time with the engine considerably as it is effectively doubling the surface area of the heat exchanger.

This is the valve used to turn supply on/off:

Solenoid Operated ON/OFF Heater Valve - Car Builder Solutions - Kit Car Parts and Accessories

It is mounted just after the tee from the heater supply hose under the bonnet. I have it wired via a switch in the cab which is supplied from a 12v ignition live.

I have an expansion vessel and accumulator installed on the fresh water plumbing side. The expansion vessel needs to be plumbed in downstream of the calorifier hot water take off. I had to adjust the pressure in mine as it was initially too high meaning the pressure relief valve was opening rather than the expansion vessel doing its job. This will depend on your water pump pressure. The accumulator is fitted just after the water pump outlet although could be installed anywhere on the primary cold water feed. Your water pump type will determine whether this is necessary. If it is a basic pressure switch type then the accumulator smooths out pressure spikes and stops any hunting from the pump.

The 230v immersion heater is wired into the consumer unit via a 5A MCB. Again this seems to work well.

One thing you may need to think about mounting it under the floor is thermo syphoning. I have heard of this problem in boat installations where the calorifier sits below the engine block and as the engine cools overnight it causes a thermo syphon - effectively cooling the calorifier hot water prematurely. My coolant hoses run below the engine then up to the calofifier which gives the horizontal hose run as the lowest point in the system and there hasn't been any problem with thermo syphon.

Appreciate it’s been a while since this thread was posted on but I’m about to have a go at installing a marine water heater and like the idea of using a solenoid valve to isolate the coolant loop. It sounds like you used only one but would I not need two valves? One for the supply tee and one for the return tee? I’d rather not buy two if not necessary as they aren’t cheap!

 

[Deleted member 4404]

Appreciate it’s been a while since this thread was posted on but I’m about to have a go at installing a marine water heater and like the idea of using a solenoid valve to isolate the coolant loop. It sounds like you used only one but would I not need two valves? One for the supply tee and one for the return tee? I’d rather not buy two if not necessary as they aren’t cheap!

A single valve will stop the flow, but 2 valves will let you isolate the calorifier.
An option would be a solenoid valve and a manual valve on the other pipe for isolating if needed?

 

[SquirrellCook]

A single valve will stop the flow, but 2 valves will let you isolate the calorifier.
An option would be a solenoid valve and a manual valve on the other pipe for isolating if needed?

On Murky I used domestic plumbing 1/4 turn taps and isolation valves for emergencies.

 

[Chindle257]

A single valve will stop the flow, but 2 valves will let you isolate the calorifier.
An option would be a solenoid valve and a manual valve on the other pipe for isolating if needed?

That’s what I needed, perfect thanks!! I’ll probably tee in just where the lines go into the dash for the cabin air heat exchanger. Not sure how to determine which way the coolant flows but at least there are two pipes there in opposing directions, ie one in and one out. Would I be right in thinking it shouldn’t matter which line gets the solenoid?

 

[Gab]

Hi,
Has anyone fitted a calorifier on a Ducato (2011-on)? If so, does anyone remembers the Reducing T dimensions they've used before the cab matrix?
I am struggling to find any info on it and I am a bit reluctant to cut it the coolant line until I know I have the right parts.
(Mine is a 2.3l 130multijet maxi 2013)

Also has anyone fitted a thermostat on the line after the T junction instead of manual tap/solenoid valve?
Any pros-cons?

Any suggestions for resources, details ideas and opinions would be much appreciated

Thank you