Electric only

[In Transit]

Hi I am a new member of this forum and am new to campervan builds so if I am repeating threads please guide me to a link if possible.
Anyhow Hello all. I am about to buy a Ford transit custom l2h2 and have started to think about what I would like in it.
I am going to transport a couple of motorcycles in it from time to time so the build will be more minimal than alot of your designs. After reading through Wildebus's thread on ac fridges I would like to build an electric power only van if possible. ie no lpg. My first question is what are the minimum battery and solar sizes I would need. I realize this depends on my use so this is my present thinking. For 2 people.
I would like to live off grid for at least 3 nights/days without starting the van engine.
I would like to run a 240v fridge, 240v kettle (1kw), small 240v microwave and possibly a small induction hob and a small water heater
12v Led lights and a roof fan.
I am thinking 2 invertors. 1 for the fridge and usb sockets (on permanetly) and a larger invertor for cooking etc to be on only when in use. This kind of replicates what wildebus went through on the 240v fridge thread.

Is this kind of set up possible at all and also without a huge budget. Have I left any essentials off my list? and are there more economical set ups?

Thanks in advance

 

[Deleted member 4404]

Hi, welcome to the Forum

Dave (Wildebus) will probably be able to give you an idea of power needed, but it sounds very ambitious for just solar

 

[persain]

the thing with solar is you need to keep panels clean otherwise you lose a lot of power

 

[RAW]

Best bet is to tag folk like @wildebus in the thread for input

David (@wildebus) is your man for all things electric and more.
From my own perspective, you will need quite a large capital outlay and I would say in Winter in UK 3 days off-grid would be hard with anything less than potentially 1000AH of Battery as usable in that if AGM or SLA would be 50% capacity so 500AH approx especially running quite high usage appliances. If you wanted Lithium batteries then that would cost quite a bit, plus with Lithium you need to be more wary off temperature when charging.

You would need a couple of decent inverters and good batteries plus charge controllers and all the rest which I think would potentially be quite a large capital outlay and I am not sure even possible in a Van of your size to have the Solar area to harvest enough to give you 3 days, I could be wrong though. Would make more sense to use LPG for Cooking, heating water and the ONE BIG THING you forgot which was actually heating the Van itself. That way just use Solar and batteries for Fridge / USB Charging and induction Hob, though the Hob would be quite a big drain and is not that great for the SLA / AGM battery due to the way it constantly pulses and draws energy off / on etc

So if you were going to use GAS LPG for heating the Van internals itself and also the Cooking part then potentially you could get a refillable Tank fitted somewhere underneath, if that was the case then I can thoroughly recommend www.facebook.com/Andy-Evans-Autogas-287906527891196

Hope that is of some help

 

[In Transit]

Thanks for your replys.
Looks like I am being way too ambitious then.
I have thought about a diesel heater for my van, if needed, but I am trying to keep the build simple.
I am used to camping on motorcycle trips so can be minimalist on my travels but would like a bit more comfort in the van.
Perhaps the cooking side of things can be done outside with a petrol fueled hob I have, when not on hookup, to save power.
Hmmmm more thinking neccessary by the looks of things.

 

[wildebus]

Hi,
a few comments in no real order, just as they come to mind

Heating ... Electric 'space' (room) heating from Battery is not really feasible. Diesel powered heaters such as the "Chinese Heaters" are probably the best option if the overall goal is staying away from having a gas installation. They are cheap, effective and once installed and operational pretty reliable.

You say about living 3+ days off-grid without having to run the engine at all. If you are talking about Summertime, or early Autumn/late Spring, then I think that is perfectly doable even while still using electric for some cooking & water heating. In the Wintertime, Solar Panels are fairly ornamental and nipping down the road for a pint of milk could put more energy back into the battery via a split-charge setup then a whole days worth of Solar Harvesting in the Winter!

Your list .... "I would like to run a 240v fridge, 240v kettle (1kw), small 240v microwave and possibly a small induction hob and a small water heater
12v Led lights and a roof fan. "
240V Fridge - yes
240V Kettle - yes (but I use my 240V Induction Hob to boil water and the water is done by the time I have the cups out and the teabag in the cup)
240V Microwave - not tried, but definately doable
240V Induction Hob - yes. a Hob is much more energy efficient and faster than gas (about twice as much at least) so IF you have the battery setup to use, then very effective.
240V Water Heating - yes, in the summer. Careful water use which is a must anyway for off-grid living means you will likely use little hot water. I have a little 10L water heater so have hot water on top (takes around 15 minutes to bring it up to good temp)


I carry one of those little camping stoves with the gas cartridges as a backup if my battery is low, or if I want to cook outside, or if I need an extra ring. I also carry a portable 500W Induction Hob to use in the awning or gazebo

2 x inverters? I had that originally and it worked well. my big inverter failed and I decided to upgrade to a bigger and fancier Multiplus Inverter/Charger and just have the one inverter. In hindsight I am very happy with the Multiplus and have no regrets getting that, but I think I should have kept the little inverter for the fridge just because a 2400W Inverter coming on to power a 34W load is not the height of efficiency. No matter how efficient the Inverter is, a 500W inverter will have less waste than a 2400W inverter when at minimal draw.
If you want 240V always available but just at a low power level, then a dedicated low-power Inverter could make sense power-wise, but putting that money into a better big inverter also makes good sense. both valid, it is just a choice

Battery Choice - as noted by @RAW , with Lead Acid you typically can only use maybe half the capacity you buy (some Lead Acid you can actually use 60% often, or even, with some, 100% but those batteries are not common and not cheap). Lithium Batteries will allow you to use near enough all you buy (so get a 100Ah Lithium Battery, you can use 100Ah). Lithium are also smaller and a lot lighter per Ah, which I think is going to be a key thing if you want to also carry a pair of motorbikes (I would think you might need to be looking at >3.5t vans for that kind of payload? )

Battery Capacity, and how much do you need? very hard to say as everyone varies. This time last year I was down in Moffat at a forum meeting - around 3 days (I think?) off-grid and it was horrible weather. Had the heater on all the time, solar was doing nothing and my 380Ah (so around 200Ah usable) battery bank was fine proving power to fridge, induction hob a few times a day, electric blankets, lights and the usual charging stuff.
I do now have a bigger bank installed (645Ah) but only as I had a good opportunity to change

End of the day, going Electric-Only is not neccessarily a cheaper option once the cost of a decent inverter and a bigger battery bank are factored in, but on the flip side, Domestic appliances such as a 240V Fridge and a 240V Induction Hob are massively cheaper then equivalent "motorhome" equipment.
My decision to be gasless was that apart from being much more familiar with Electrics than Gas, I regard using Electric via Batteries far safer than using open flames in a van with highly pressurised gas bottles. Some people will disagree with that and that is their perogative, but I stand by this opinion.

Hope this was of some help. Any questions, just ask.

 

[trevskoda]

Hi solar in summer to charge batteries using a mppt control unit,engine in winter or hook up,gas to cook and heat water,led lights,a 230v fridge is ok but use a small one ,i can get two days form 2 90ah batts,do forget inverters if pos.
AS oters have said a chinnese heater ,remeber if changing from com vh to camper/motoercaravan then carrying m/bikes in side is a no no by law as its then classed as a living van,good luck with build.

 

[wildebus]

Hi solar in summer to charge batteries using a mppt control unit,engine in winter or hook up,gas to cook and heat water,led lights,a 230v fridge is ok but use a small one ,i can get two days form 2 90ah batts,do forget inverters if pos.
AS oters have said a chinnese heater ,remeber if changing from com vh to camper/motoercaravan then carrying m/bikes in side is a no no by law as its then classed as a living van,good luck with build.

Thing is, Trev, the way the "rules" have changed, it is very hard to get a conversion reclassified as a "Motor Caravan" so that proviso has become a lot less relevant. And the good news is that because DVLA have take that stance, insurance companies have become a lot more lenient on giving Campervan insurance policies on vehicle that are not reclassified (no problems with that in GB unlike NI)

 

[In Transit]

Thanks for all your advice .
My main use for the van would be to attend race meetings as a spectator in the spring / summer / early autumn. I am also going to use it to live in during a trip to northern spain in September. This will be for 9 nights but I have the option of a 10amp hookup. It sounds like an outside cooking option is easy in the summer with the microwave/induction hob an option to be used sparingly.
A good point about the load capacity. The van I am looking at is rated at 2.9 tonnes giving a total load capacity of 1 tonne. The bikes are roughly 150kg each so hopefully I will be able to stay within this 1 tonne. A good point about battery weight but the lithium ones are very expensive. What kind of AH would be a reasonable start and what size solar to charge them?
I didnt know about the van use restrictions so I should keep it as a comercial van then.

 

[wildebus]

What size solar? literally as much as you can fit on the roof. Go for glass panels and the cost per Watt can go as low as 80p/Watt.
What Size batteries? I would maybe look at between 300-400Ah in total, made up of multiple batteries in parallel. AGM Batteries are a good compromise for Price and Performance. Check out alpha-batteries for a good selection and good prices. If you join the forum as a full member, you can also get a discount off those prices.
Have you bought your van yet? if not, is a higher capacity available? Go between 3t and 3.5t and the only difference in terms of using is you would need a class 7 MOT instead of a class 4, but the higher capacity will be very useful for you.
Using portable gas outside for daytime cooking but having a nice clean and fast induction inside for your morning cuppa and evening cocoa is a good setup (and helps avoiding cooking smells inside as well ). you can get Induction hobs for little money (I paid £20 for my 2kW one)

 

[In Transit]

I haven't bought the van yet but am viewing one tomorrow. The limiting factor is the width of my drive and a transit custom just fits. A 3.1 tonne is available in the custom. As I am new to the camper van world I appreciate any advice as there is alot to sort out.
Thanks

 

[ScoTTyBEEE]

What size solar? literally as much as you can fit on the roof. Go for glass panels and the cost per Watt can go as low as 80p/Watt.
What Size batteries? I would maybe look at between 300-400Ah in total, made up of multiple batteries in parallel. AGM Batteries are a good compromise for Price and Performance. Check out alpha-batteries for a good selection and good prices. If you join the forum as a full member, you can also get a discount off those prices.
Have you bought your van yet? if not, is a higher capacity available? Go between 3t and 3.5t and the only difference in terms of using is you would need a class 7 MOT instead of a class 4, but the higher capacity will be very useful for you.
Using portable gas outside for daytime cooking but having a nice clean and fast induction inside for your morning cuppa and evening cocoa is a good setup (and helps avoiding cooking smells inside as well ). you can get Induction hobs for little money (I paid £20 for my 2kW one)

I've just bought solar panels at 36p a watt, but it was possible to get 33p on the 72 cell ones.

 

[RAW]

As I am new to the camper van world I appreciate any advice as there is a lot to sort out.

Too true, I was relatively new to it all early last year and the most sage bit of advice anyone has given me is:
"Don't go overboard on the first Van as there are likely things that won't suit, e.g driving position, design factors that cannot be altered and so on. So it is all, at times, a steep learning curve."

As @wildebus states there are trade discounts for Full members and looks like you are one, here:
https://motorhomer.com/discounts/

For Solar if you are down South then Bimble Solar have some good cut price and recon glass panels and batteries and are helpful
Or Ian of Xerogrid in Leeds sold me a 285W New Panel which is very good and as @wildebus states above really depends on roof space as to how much solar harvesting you can do. It is worth looking at ways of tilting panels too as you get more solar output that way if you don't have that much of an array it can make a big difference. Or if you are staying in one place then maybe you could look at Panels outside of your van.

 

[Deleted member 4404]

A word of warning about cheapie ex solar farm panels. I bought a 285w and after 2 years the output had dropped considerably; on inspection there were lots of rust like marks inside the panel, which I was told were probably caused by arcing. I therefore have reservations about whether they are suitable for mobile applications.

 

[Nabsim]

Lithium has come down in price and will continue to do so, I haven’t looked for a while now as I am set up but last price I saw was £500 for 100ah.
I was going to ask about the bikes and 3 day link as if you were competing you would need more water for showers. Don’t know if you know but showers are different when you don’t have a ready supply of water, you wet and turn off, soap up then rinse. Leaving the shower on drains a lot of water

 

[Nabsim]

A word of warning about cheapie ex solar farm panels. I bought a 285w and after 2 years the output had dropped considerably; on inspection there were lots of rust like marks inside the panel, which I was told were probably caused by arcing. I therefore have reservations about whether they are suitable for mobile applications.

Possibly just natural ageing Chris, panels do drop off and have a life, depends how long they had been in use before you got them. Also older technology and or cheaper panels didn’t have as long a life cycle. I think mine are 5% drop in first 5 years then would have to look up after that for ten year etc.
I don’t think there is a static and mobile panel in glass but not looked into it that deeply, I think if you pushed it with a manufacturer no glass panel is designed for mobile home use.
on power critical designs it may be something you swap at ten years?
Then again after the glorious weather of 2018 and how that bumped up solar the weather since has made a much shorter harvesting period lol

 

[Millie Master]

the thing with solar is you need to keep panels clean otherwise you lose a lot of power

And more important than that you need lots of sun to make them work.

 

[RAW]

This looks really good for the price - Thoughts @wildebus ?? Others ?
Only one of them available though
https://www.bimblesolar.com/nifebatteries/12vnife400ah-New-Old-Stock

 

[RAW]

And more important than that you need lots of sun to make them work.

Not so much lots of sun anymore with the new technologies in Solar Panels. Really how much wattage you can produce in not so high solar output areas, e.g hebden bridge

 

[In Transit]

Well I am happy I joined this forum. I have cancelled looking at the van I fancied as a quick tot up of payload shows I will go over the gross weight or be very close. A 3.3t transit custom is available which will give a bit more capacity. I wont be competing on the bike but go trail riding, so a shower would be great, but it looks like I need to pair down to a minimum what I actually fit. All good stuff and a "steep learning curve" for sure as RAW said.