AC Fridge In Campervan -.Power Consumption Test

mistericeman

Forum Member
Interesting.....
Just been speaking to one of our suppliers... He's chasing a price on 12v 134a compressors for me and reckons it's likely to be significantly less than £100......

Cheap triple a rated fridge (part of energy efficiency is extra insulation)
And swap 240 comp to 12v compressor for max efficiency without inverter losses.
 

wildebus

Forum Member
Day 1 - VICTRON REBOOT

I finished my testing of the Fridge+1000W Inverter after 3 Days of evaluation.

I wanted to repeat the test but using a more advanced Inverter that was both more efficient in use AND had a ECO Mode - more of which later.

END OF DAY 3
This is what the Monitors say
IMG_20180306_152900 by David, on Flickr
The Fridge was connected to inverter on the GREEN Monitor - so consumed 905Wh.
The Pattern went 270Wh + 300Wh + 335Wh on a daily basis. This increase I believe is due to the increasing ambient temperature (finally!)

This is the Time, plus Ambient and Fridge Temps
IMG_20180306_152918 by David, on Flickr
So yesterday the ambient temp was 6 Celcius at 15:30 (all my daily readings are at 15:30 give or take a few minutes)


The Victron Inverter
The Victron Phoenix 12/500 Inverter has two modes it operates in - "ON" and "ECO".
ON = On all the time;
ECO = Searches for a load every 5 of so seconds and then if it finds one, it turns on until load goes away, then goes back to ECO mode

While I was conducting the energy tests on the Fridge Running, I was also checking the Victrons no-load power consumption. This is what I found (remember BLUE meter for Victron):

Victron in ON Mode
IMG_20180305_152933 by David, on Flickr
In ON Mode, the Inverter used 206Wh of energy in 24Hrs - that is nearly 20% less then the other inverter did with no-load, but it is still a fair bit.

Victron in ECO Mode
I reset the Wh value, changed the mode to ECO and left it another 24 hours
IMG_20180306_152900 by David, on Flickr
In ECO Mode, the Inverter used 25Wh of Energy in 24 Hrs - a massive drop of power consumed!

This is a short (and boring!) bit of video showing the inverter doing its searching
[video=youtube_share;Sj-3CY1HtVQ]https://youtu.be/Sj-3CY1HtVQ[/video]

There is a Bluetooth App that you can use to monitor and control the Inverter. I took some screenshots of it working in ECO Mode

First what you get most of the time - Searching for Demand
Victron - ECO Mode by David, on Flickr

Then I moved the Fridge Temp Control to Max to kick the compressor into action
Victron - In-Rush by David, on Flickr
You can see the high demand on the Inverter caused by the In-Rush Current I explained about in the very first post on this thread.
It is a higher draw then the Victrons normal operating Range but within limits for such a short duration.

And then the In-Rush disappears after a second and the Fridge runs at normal power (before turning itself off once set temp reached)
Vicron - Normal by David, on Flickr


The DAY 1 - VICTRON REBOOT Results ...

I reset the Blue Monitor again yesterday at 15:30, had the Victron in ECO mode, plugged in the Fridge and waited 24 Hours to see what will happen.

Fast Forward to today, 15:30
IMG_20180307_154050 by David, on Flickr
The Ambient Temp has DOUBLED from 6C to 12C - and it feels like it to when going outside - this is actually the warmest day of 2018 so far up here. Fridge is at -0.4C, so obviously working, and working harder then the last 3 days no doubt.

But what about Energy Consumption?
IMG_20180307_154040 by David, on Flickr

Down to 163Wh consumed in 24Hrs!
(remember, the best with the other standard inverter was 270Wh in much cooler temperatures.)
NOTE: The higher voltage is the Solar Charging the battery bank - the Monitor is on the inverter and the Power Consumed is not impacted by battery charging.


If you prefer your numbers in Ah, 163Wh = 15.6Ah a Day, or 0.56Ah/Hr. That is a tremendous difference.
If you take off 25Wh - representing the Inverter use while Searching - from the 163Wh, you get 138Wh the Fridge used; Up from the 90Wh the previous day, but bear in mind the much warmer temp. The pattern is logical.

Again, the real test will be in the summer with higher temps, but I will leave you with this thought ...
AC Fridge + Top Drawer Inverter in ECO Mode = 220Wh + 25Wh = 245Wh Per Day (0.85Ah/Hr Ave)
Specialist DC Fridge (Weaco CRX-80) = 342Wh Per Day (1.18Ah/Hr Ave)

AC Fridge + Top Drawer Inverter = £300 (plus £6.99 for Fridge Door Lock)
DC Weaco Fridge = £700
 

wildebus

Forum Member
Interesting.....
Just been speaking to one of our suppliers... He's chasing a price on 12v 134a compressors for me and reckons it's likely to be significantly less than £100......

Cheap triple a rated fridge (part of energy efficiency is extra insulation)
And swap 240 comp to 12v compressor for max efficiency without inverter losses.

Shoreline do AC-DC Fridge Conversions - popular with Boaters.

I have not looked at converting the Fridge to DC myself as I expect to be using the inverter for numerous other purposes anyway, so those inverter losses would be incurred anyway and I have spec'ed a big enough Battery Bank and Solar Array to manage that.
I can see it being a worthwhile option to investigate for others.
Should the Compressor fail in the future, replacing with a DC rather than another AC one could be a logical step.

You might also be interested in the last test - DAY 1 - VICTRON REBOOT - to see the inverter losses when in the ECO mode...
 

mistericeman

Forum Member
Shoreline do AC-DC Fridge Conversions - popular with Boaters.

I have not looked at converting the Fridge to DC myself as I expect to be using the inverter for numerous other purposes anyway, so those inverter losses would be incurred anyway and I have spec'ed a big enough Battery Bank and Solar Array to manage that.
I can see it being a worthwhile option to investigate for others.
Should the Compressor fail in the future, replacing with a DC rather than another AC one could be a logical step.

You might also be interested in the last test - DAY 1 - VICTRON REBOOT - to see the inverter losses when in the ECO mode...

I considered the 240v fridge/ inverter route some time back but as our inverter (already installed for microwave/toaster/slow cooker/kettle etc) draws just below 2 amps on standby i ruled it out ...

However the Waeco 40l coolbox has been well worth the cost

BUT ill be interested to see what price he can get me 12v compressors for AND how efficient they are ....

As an aside almost all our aircon stuff is now inverter driven (all the inverter tech and control systems for it built into the units themselves ) and it's made it fantastically efficient power consumption wise ...
I wonder how long it will be before it possibly drifts into the domestic fridge world ....though likely the amount of time a fridge spends running in a domestic enviroment is so small the power savings are possibly not large enough the warrant the extra complexity .
 

wildebus

Forum Member
My van in summer is easy 36c so wondering how hard the batterys would get hammered.

Bit of an :eek:fftopic: comment now ...

I found my T5 Camper would often get to 45C on a nice summers day (so just occasionally!). This was due to having windows all round and no fan or real ventilation other then sliders in two sliding doors - so the back part was pretty hot!

On my new conversion, I have installed a MaxxAir 7500 Roof Fan - that is about as close to air conditioning WITHOUT air conditioning it is possible to get. It is thermostatically controlled, so as the interior heats up, the fan will automatically speed up to shift more volume through in order to hit the temp you have preset.
I have great hopes for this unit and expect that will maintain the interior of the van to a manageable temp for typical UK and European locations. obviously if we have summers of 36C+ then moving air around won't lower the internal temp below that, but can't see that being likely (sadly :( - I love the heat!)

(the Fan will also use more power than the Fridge :raofl: )
 

colinmd

I think the "doesn't work if not level" issue is for gas Fridges? A compressor fridge doesn't have that issue (never did with my 12V one, so can't see why a 240V would be different?)

Had a bit of brain fade there was thinking of 3ways, apparently compressor fridges up to 30deg.
 

wildebus

Forum Member
I considered the 240v fridge/ inverter route some time back but as our inverter (already installed for microwave/toaster/slow cooker/kettle etc) draws just below 2 amps on standby i ruled it out ...

However the Waeco 40l coolbox has been well worth the cost

BUT ill be interested to see what price he can get me 12v compressors for AND how efficient they are ....

As an aside almost all our aircon stuff is now inverter driven (all the inverter tech and control systems for it built into the units themselves ) and it's made it fantastically efficient power consumption wise ...
I wonder how long it will be before it possibly drifts into the domestic fridge world ....though likely the amount of time a fridge spends running in a domestic enviroment is so small the power savings are possibly not large enough the warrant the extra complexity .

Before I got the Weaco CRX-50 Built-In, I used a Weaco CoolFreeze CDF-36 and I found that REALLY good power-wise. I did consider just keeping that when I changed vans instead of getting a Weaco Fridge, but a 'proper' Fridge with a door is very convenient it has to be said.

I am very surprised doing this test finding that the Fridge is on for such little time. I am going to assume when we hit summer it will be in 'running' mode more frequently but even then won't be that much.


The ECO Mode on the Victron is not perfect - it needs a minimum load of 15W to activate the inverter - so the Fridge Light for example won't turn it on (maybe a good thing? do you really need a light in a fridge?) - but for high power items it would work well.
I plan to stick with my basic 1000W inverter for the Cooking side (Induction Hob/Slow Cooker/George Foreman Grill) and Power Tool Usage as I can just flick a switch to turn it on when I need it, and then (hopefully remembering to ) turn off when done. A Victron Inverter of sufficient power to replace it would be nice, but would also be 5 times the price.
 

trevskoda

Forum Member
Bit of an :eek:fftopic: comment now ...

I found my T5 Camper would often get to 45C on a nice summers day (so just occasionally!). This was due to having windows all round and no fan or real ventilation other then sliders in two sliding doors - so the back part was pretty hot!

On my new conversion, I have installed a MaxxAir 7500 Roof Fan - that is about as close to air conditioning WITHOUT air conditioning it is possible to get. It is thermostatically controlled, so as the interior heats up, the fan will automatically speed up to shift more volume through in order to hit the temp you have preset.
I have great hopes for this unit and expect that will maintain the interior of the van to a manageable temp for typical UK and European locations. obviously if we have summers of 36C+ then moving air around won't lower the internal temp below that, but can't see that being likely (sadly :( - I love the heat!)

(the Fan will also use more power than the Fridge :raofl: )

Im lucky i have 3 big opening roof widows which vent well,but its the masif big w/sheild which is like a cooker if pointing at the sun,i have now fitted bus pull down screens and a cab curtain which realy helps.
 

mistericeman

Forum Member
Im lucky i have 3 big opening roof widows which vent well,but its the masif big w/sheild which is like a cooker if pointing at the sun,i have now fitted bus pull down screens and a cab curtain which realy helps.

We find our Taylormade external screens make as massive a difference in summer as they do in winter....
 

wildebus

Forum Member
Im lucky i have 3 big opening roof widows which vent well,but its the masif big w/sheild which is like a cooker if pointing at the sun,i have now fitted bus pull down screens and a cab curtain which realy helps.

I plan to get external insulated windscreen and cab door window screens which will be good for all-seasons. Internally blackout curtains on a rail for same area (for wild overnighting). Didn't plan to add any specific insulation on those to reflect heat but maybe would be worth doing?
 

trevskoda

Forum Member
I plan to get external insulated windscreen and cab door window screens which will be good for all-seasons. Internally blackout curtains on a rail for same area (for wild overnighting). Didn't plan to add any specific insulation on those to reflect heat but maybe would be worth doing?

Im not fussed on external screens just incase one has to move quick,or when sleeping they get nicked,id go for internal one to be honest but to each there own.
 
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wildebus

Forum Member
Im not fused on external screens just incase one has to move quick,or when sleeping they get nicked,id go for internal one to be honest but to each there own.
I used internal screens on my T4 - they were home-made ones made from Silver Bubble-Foil. They were quite good but did end up with a lot of condensation on the screen. This was also due to ventilation as well I know, but the external screens as I understand it are much bettery in eliminating (or at least reducing) that.
This is what I have in mind - Thermal external blinds windscreen cover Cabin Mercedes Sprinter 1996-2006 | eBay
I was planning on going to the NEC Camping and van show so held off buying in case any good deals there.
 

wildebus

Forum Member
Final Update for Now - with Inverter Comparision and a Summary

This is now 6 Full Days since I started this Consumption Test.

Day 1-3 was using an standard economy Inverter connected to the Battery Bank and with a Single Load - a A++ Rated 93L Fridge
The Total Power Usage (Fridge AND Inverter) in the 3 days was 905Wh
IMG_20180306_152900 by David, on Flickr
This represents an average of around 300Wh per Day;
Using an AC Watt Meter confirmed previous calculations that the Inverter was responsible for 240Wh a Day of that consumption and the Fridge itself drew an average of about 60Wh a Day over the 3 days.


Day 4-6 was using a Victron Inverter set in ECO Mode, again connected to the Battery Bank and with a Single Load - a A++ Rated 93L Fridge.
The Total Power Usage in the 2nd set of 3 days was 404Wh.
IMG_20180309_153731 by David, on Flickr
This represents an average of around 135Wh per Day;
It was not possible to use an AC Watt Meter with the Inverter in ECO Mode, but previous testing showed the Victron in ECO mode used 25Wh a Day, so we will base the Fridge Usage on that basis
So with the Inverter responsible for 25Wh a Day of that 404Wh consumption, it means the Fridge itself drew an average of about 110Wh a Day over the 3 days.

This higher consumption makes sense as the ambient temperature has been higher (but still less than 10C) as the days have changed, with day 3 being the warmest, and the last couple of days being a little cooler again (still an Ice Sheet on the top of my trailer at lunchtime today) but not as bad as day 1.


The test is now over and the fridge turned off and it needs to move out the way as I am restarting my interior build out (Bed Platform time). The following are my conclusions.


CONCLUSIONS

Power Usage
Extrapolating the Data into a "Normal" situation, where the Fridge is operating in a temp of around 20C and using Fridge Manufacturers Consumption figure, plus my test result consumptions for the Inverters, this is what I am concluding:

Using standard economy Inverter: Total Power Consumed per Day averages 460Wh = 19Wh/Hr = 1.6Ah/Hr (38.4Ah/Day)
Using Victron Phoenix Inverter: Total Power Consumed per Day averages 245Wh = 10Wh/Hr = 0.85Ah/Hr (20.4Ah/Day


Dropping around 20% OFF the Waeco numbers as they are quoted at 25C and the AC Fridge probably at 20C, I am estimating the following
Verses Weaco CRX-50 12V Fridge: Estimated Power Consumed per Day averages 288Wh = 12Wh/Hr = 1.0Ah/Hr (24Ah/Day)


Using a basic economy Inverter with this Class A++ AC Fridge, you will use around 15Ah per Day MORE than an efficient 12V Compressor Fridge
Using a quality Inverter with ECO feature with this AC Fridge, you will use around 3.5Ah per Day LESS than an efficient 12V Compressor Fridge


The additional Power usage of 15Ah a day (basic Inverter) represents around 1/3rd of the AVAILABLE power from a 100Ah Battery.
The Power Saving of 3.5Ah a day (with the Victron Inverter) is neither here nor there.


Item Costs

A Weaco CRX-50 12V DC Compressor Fridge is one of the most efficient of that type on the market - it costs around £500. the Bigger CRX-80 is around £700 and likely uses same power.


To get an AC Alternative requires Fridge AND Inverter of course.

Fridge:
It is possible to get a 40L A++ Fridge from Inventor for around £85; The AC Class A++ 94L Fridge from Inventor and as tested costs £170;

Inverter:
Basic Inverter - Prices vary; We will assume £100 as a Ballpark figure (plenty suitable available for less)
Victron Inverter - We will assume £165 (usual selling price less) for 12/500 Model

Battery: To compensate for the extra power used by the basic Inverter, an additional battery may be considered (you may have spare capacity already)? To give 3 Days worth of extra power needed to make things equal, an 100Ah battery would be needed - £100


Cost Summary

40-50L Fridge Solution:
DC Option = £500
AC Option (with Basic Inverter + Battery) = £85 + £100 + £100 = £285 --> Saving of £215
AC Option (with Victron Inverter) = £85 + £165 = £270 --> Saving of £230

80-95L Fridge Solution:
DC Option = £700
AC Option (with Basic Inverter + Battery) = £170 + £100 + £100 = £370 --> Saving of £330
AC Option (with Victron Inverter) = £170 + £165 = £335--> Saving of £365


So a considerable saving for AC. Another consideration for me was cost of replacement - if the Fridge fails, it is another £500 - £700 cost. For the AC option, it is a £85 - £170 cost.


For me personally, I was happy to go AC for my Refrigeration to gain those cost savings (this was the primary drive - for both initial purchase and replacement costs)
I selected a Fridge with good energy usage and a 2 year warranty.
I chose a Victron Inverter as it is best quality and has a 5 year warranty.
 

hairydog

So it turns out that the thread was indeed about inverters, just as much as it was about fridges.

I can't help but wonder what scope there is for having the fridge run off 240v but have its thermostat control the 12v power to the inverter. That way, no inverter waste and no need for complex power sniffing. It'd not be difficult to do, but would invalidate the fridge arranty.
 
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hairydog

The Ambient Temp has DOUBLED from 6C to 12C - and it feels like it to when going outside - this is actually the warmest day of 2018 so far up here. Fridge is at -0.4C, so obviously working, and working harder then the last 3 days no doubt.
The ambient temp has risen by 6 degrees. You can't justifiably call that double. You have to find a valid base temeprature, and 0 degrees is no more valid than any other temperature as a base.

Iy makes more sense to compare the temperature differential between the inside and the outside of the fridge. If you assume a target temperature inside the fridge of 5 degrees, it has risen from one degree above target to seven degrees above: that's a six-fold rise.

But if the fridge is -0.4 inside, we have to wonder about its temperature control.
 

wildebus

Forum Member
The ambient temp has risen by 6 degrees. You can't justifiably call that double. You have to find a valid base temeprature, and 0 degrees is no more valid than any other temperature as a base.

Iy makes more sense to compare the temperature differential between the inside and the outside of the fridge. If you assume a target temperature inside the fridge of 5 degrees, it has risen from one degree above target to seven degrees above: that's a six-fold rise.

But if the fridge is -0.4 inside, we have to wonder about its temperature control.
Not sure why I bother to reply to YOU, but I will ...

The internal Temp of the fridge is steady at near enough 0C - that is colder then a fridge should be (and today I got an can of lemonade out of it and it was COLD!) but I am just setting the dial at a certain position for testing purposes, not to store food in.

So .... the ambient temp rising from 6C to 12C IS double in relation to the internal temp of the Fridge (as per your comment "Iy makes more sense to compare the temperature differential between the inside and the outside of the fridge (sic)")

"But if the fridge is -0.4 inside, we have to wonder about its temperature control." - why it that? because it can be set to -0.4C? set the dial on any fridge too low and you can hit way lower than that.
 
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hairydog

Since you ask, -0,4 is too cold for a fridge, and one of the important measures of a fridge is how well it can regulate temperature, as well as measuring how much power it uses to do so.

The tests you are doing seem well worth while, but only in the context of measuring the power needed to maintain a suitable temperature in differing ambient temperature conditions.

I'm looking forward to seeing how the figures differ in a hot June week, but unless you set the fridge to be at a suitable temperature, those figures will be rather less useful.

Oh, and thanks for telling me that It isn't spelled with a y. I never knew that. In return, I'll let you know that there is a an r in Campervan
 

trevskoda

Forum Member
While the info is fantastic and well done that man ,im thinking we better get D trump in to calm the situation just like he is doing with rocket man.:scared:
 

mistericeman

Forum Member
The desperation of some folks to rubbish/discredit other folks efforts to actually inject some 'fact' into the usual Internet expertise that sloshes round the T'interweb, really does lead me to despair at times.....

Possibly rather than 'theories' picking holes in someone else's ACTUAL arsedness to try to inject some FACT....

A preferable option MIGHT actually be to be bothered to go and dig a test meter and associated gear out and come up with some figures to pose a different outcome????

Just sayin.....
 

channa

If you observations are helpful to others then you have given a contribution of value.

Early on I had an Aspie moment which you clarified

Environmental facts you cant influence and can only observe with the ambient temperatures given. I don't think fridge manufacturers state ambient temperature ASL

In the gas world there is lots of data applicable to temperatures, volumes to air, specific densities etc etc all done at 15degrees and sea level as the benchmark. Practical terms of limited value near the summit of Mont Blanc.

So you can only observe with what factors are there

Channa
 

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