12 Volt Heating

[Squiffy]

Have to say Trev, if I had been able to incorporated one of those into my build I would have done, as you say no need for 12volt feed to supply a lot of radiated heat. I had those in my caravans and previous motorhomes all be it they were coach built Phil

 

[RAW]

Got the complete setup from autogas 2000 with stainless steel holding cradle and straps ( A little bit extra in cost ). The job I completed myself ( There is no legal impediment to do this, as much as some try to tell you) So long as you are competent in DIY then it is really an easy job to carry out ( I've now done 3 installations over 3 years ago and none of them have had a problem in any shape or form). As I have previously mentioned at this point in time gas is cheap if purchased as Auto gas from a gas supplier or Garages that sell auto gas for gas propelled vehicles

Well I have just noticed this on EBAY
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/UK-Bayon...e-Bottle-1-Meters-FLEXI-pipe-pol/163658276501

So does that mean you can fill the empty metal bottle with LPG if I just fitted the LPG inlet to the door of where the Calor Gas Units are housed then when a bottle is empty I can simply refill it with LPG ? Dangerous or not, no idea how all this LPG autogas filling stuff works
Also Autogas2000 serach brings up quite a few web results, is there a particular company you buy from

??

TIA

 

[Squiffy]

In theory yes, but very fool hardy, unfortunately purpose built Gas bottles whether it is underslung or calor style bottles have a built in safe guard so that the bottle can only be filled to 80% capacity, the reason being that if over filled beyound the recommended 80% gas in liquid form can arrive at the hob/oven/heater or fridge and that is not a situation that you want to happen. 7.5 and 15ltr bottles as rented from a gas supplier such as calor gas or Flogas fill their bottles by weight on scales so that the need for a shut off valve at 80% is not required. What you are doing with this method from ebay is a matter of luck that you do not over fill the bottle unless of course you have the bottles on very accurate electronic scales and know what the filled weight of the bottle make should be, there are some details of bottle empty weight and bottle full weight on the web, but in honesty I would advise you to find second hand gaslow bottles which do have the 80% valve or an under slung tank made for purpose. Phil

P.p.s Autogas 2000 to my knowedge there is only one company based in Birmingham

Here is the link.
http://www.autogasleisure.co.uk/

 

[SquirrellCook]

Get a old caravan gas indirect heater,the exhaust is under the van so no nasty burnt gas to kill you,can be bought from £25 up and use no lecy.View attachment 1424

The down side of those heaters is that the fumes can find their way into the habitation areas, they also seem to use a lot of gas for the heat given out. Not experienced one, but I'm told the ones with a built in fan are better at heating.

 

[Squiffy]

The down side of those heaters is that the fumes can find their way into the habitation areas, they also seem to use a lot of gas for the heat given out. Not experienced one, but I'm told the ones with a built in fan are better at heating.

Your correct in saying the blow fan ones are more efficient Squirrel but that means 12volt is necessary to drive the fan and most that have the fan also have 230volt heaters incorporated as well, the fume smell I feel is more to do with dust that settles on and in the heater as the gas burner is in or should be in, a totally seperate compartment sealed from the hab area, the other slight disadvantage is the chimney to work well has to go directly up and through the roof. Phil.

 

[GEOFF]

In theory yes, but very fool hardy, unfortunately purpose built Gas bottles whether it is underslung or calor style bottles have a built in safe guard so that the bottle can only be filled to 80% capacity, the reason being that if over filled beyound the recommended 80% gas in liquid form can arrive at the hob/oven/heater or fridge and that is not a situation that you want to happen. 7.5 and 15ltr bottles as rented from a gas supplier such as calor gas or Flogas fill their bottles by weight on scales so that the need for a shut off valve at 80% is not required. What you are doing with this method from ebay is a matter of luck that you do not over fill the bottle unless of course you have the bottles on very accurate electronic scales and know what the filled weight of the bottle make should be, there are some details of bottle empty weight and bottle full weight on the web, but in honesty I would advise you to find second hand gaslow bottles which do have the 80% valve or an under slung tank made for purpose. Phil

P.p.s Autogas 2000 to my knowedge there is only one company based in Birmingham

Here is the link.
http://www.autogasleisure.co.uk/

I used autogas 2000, based in Thirsk. Geoff.

 

[SquirrellCook]

Your correct in saying the blow fan ones are more efficient Squirrel but that means 12volt is necessary to drive the fan and most that have the fan also have 230volt heaters incorporated as well, the fume smell I feel is more to do with dust that settles on and in the heater as the gas burner is in or should be in, a totally seperate compartment sealed from the hab area, the other slight disadvantage is the chimney to work well has to go directly up and through the roof. Phil.

The ones I've experienced Phil, had the flue under the vehicle.

Mark

 

[Squiffy]

The ones I've experienced Phil, had the flue under the vehicle.

Mark

Hmmm Mark I can not categorically say for sure but the only ones I've come across the inlet (Air intake) comes from under the van goes through the burner and then continues up the chimney, for an exhaust to operate in that it exhausts down through the floor would require a strong exhaust fan to drag combustible air in and push exhaust gas out, in the same manner of a domestic boiler flu works and indeed the flues of Truma 4/6 boiler/Heater. Phil

 

[Squiffy]

I used autogas 2000, based in Thirsk. Geoff.

Quite so Geoff, it has been four years since I bought mine and I bought the lot at a reduced price at one of the many motorhome shows that we go to, I thought they were Brummie, but I haven't looked at the invoice since it arrived on my door step. Phil

 

[RAW]

Having watched this I am thinking that maybe I should take the stock Gas heater out and put a small woodburner in ?

 

[Squiffy]

Having watched this I am thinking that maybe I should take the stock Gas heater out and put a small woodburner in ?

Thats all very well, but you will have to fit a tow bar as well unless you have already got one, but you will certainly need a trailer to carry your wood supply. I fitted a wood burner in the house and love it, but it burns wood like forests are going out of fashion no matter how damped down it is, it's also supposed to be Defra approved and one of the more economical ones. My brother has one in his cottage and to heat the place up its got to be roaring and he goes through at least 7 hardwood logs a night. Think you really want to get an unbiased opinion of someone who has one in their van and has not got a commercial interest in recommending one. Oh and by the way his statement that the gas installation must be signed off by a qualified gas engineer is factually incorrect. Phil

P.s That is of course that you are not producing vans to sell on a commercial basis.

 

[wildebus]

Having a wood burner fixed in the van is a nice concept but as Phil says, boy do they go through fuel!
And I think your van would also smell of burning logs permanently

Personally I think the diesel type heaters are the way to go. Chinese jobbies at around £150 including upgrades to replace poor quality parts and running costs really are minimal (and less then buying wood at a petrol station). I've used maybe 4-5 litres of Kerosene in 3 long weekends away - that's about 70p of fuel per weekend.

 

[Deleted member 4404]

I've fitted woodburners in our narrowboats and they certainly belt out the heat BUT - They must burn hot or the chimney will tar up very quickly.
The amount of dry wood needed is massive.
The ash needs emptying and disposing of at least once a day and you can expect everything nearby to be covered in fine dust.

So, they have a very romantic image, but practically to me they have more cons than pros. (I fitted a diesel heater in our last boat)

 

[mistericeman]

Have to say after living with a log burner for 10 years plus when, I lived on a narrow boat...
Much as I loved it... I wouldn't have one in a van/motorhome... Dusty, often temperamental to light (and keep lit) smelly and fuel is both bulky (and expensive relatively these days)
I'd go eberspacher diesel OR if you really want the fire effect a Taylor or bubble type diesel stove.

 

[Millie Master]

This is proving to be a very interesting read for me with some excellent factual comments as well as some pie in the sky ones as well, but hey ho, such is life.

As for stand alone refillable gas cylinders @RAW I have one fitted to my van it is a SafeFill lightweight glassfibre tank as shown below.

Most stand alone cylinders actually come with 2 x LPG connection points, one for connecting to your installation for supplying gas to the burners and one for connecting to a refilling point, however, and a significant downside of the SafeFill cylinder is that there is only a single combined fill/empty entry point into the cylinder, and hence the reason I had to come up with a modification.

The major problem with these stand alone cylinders is that there are only a relatively small number of LPG supplying garages and general suppliers and a lot of those will not allow you to fill up a stand alone cylinder and if you are ever intending to travel over to the mainland of Europe, in the vast majority of countries it is illegal to do so.

Because of this and because of the difficulty I actually experienced I designed and installed a van panel refilling point along with a system internally that allows me to safely refill my stand alone tank as if it were an underslung tank and have now used this installation wherever I have travelled throughout France, Belgium, Switzerland and of course the UK.

Phil

 

[SquirrellCook]

Hmmm Mark I can not categorically say for sure but the only ones I've come across the inlet (Air intake) comes from under the van goes through the burner and then continues up the chimney, for an exhaust to operate in that it exhausts down through the floor would require a strong exhaust fan to drag combustible air in and push exhaust gas out, in the same manner of a domestic boiler flu works and indeed the flues of Truma 4/6 boiler/Heater. Phil

This is a posh one with a thermostat. The air intake rotates away from the exhaust.

 

[RAW]

Hey Phil / @Millie Master

As for stand alone refillable gas cylinders @RAW I have one fitted to my van it is a SafeFill lightweight glassfibre tank as shown below.

Most stand alone cylinders actually come with 2 x LPG connection points, one for connecting to your installation for supplying gas to the burners and one for connecting to a refilling point, however, and a significant downside of the SafeFill cylinder is that there is only a single combined fill/empty entry point into the cylinder, and hence the reason I had to come up with a modification.

The major problem with these stand alone cylinders is that there are only a relatively small number of LPG supplying garages and general suppliers and a lot of those will not allow you to fill up a stand alone cylinder and if you are ever intending to travel over to the mainland of Europe, in the vast majority of countries it is illegal to do so.

Because of this and because of the difficulty I actually experienced I designed and installed a van panel refilling point along with a system internally that allows me to safely refill my stand alone tank as if it were an underslung tank and have now used this installation wherever I have travelled throughout France, Belgium, Switzerland and of course the UK.

That is all really helpful information for me so thank-you very much and you have now demonstrated with the point of single entry and exit on the fill the fact that Safefill containers may only be allowed to be refilled in certain places.

I am still deliberating everything and I would have thought that with the evolution of technology it would not be such a hard thing to have a 12V heating system. However, 12V systems that use electric supply to heat elements are a large draw on the leisure battery as has been pointed out and although the Solar System I am planning would work well at topping up the battery in the longer months, it would not fair so well in the shorter months and when the heat is needed.
I think the first steps are maybe to just try and clean the Carver that came with the Van and see if I can make it work better.
So maybe as a combination in Winter when driving I could use a heater like this:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/500W-12V...er-Hot-Heating-Warmer-Windscreen/382902322603

So by driving I would heat the Van and the Leisure Battery would receive power from Both Solar in the Day and the Split Charge Relay when Sylvia is in motion.

It's all a useful learning curve for me, still deliberating.
Thanks everyone for their input
Robert

 

[Millie Master]

Hey Phil / @Millie Master

That is all really helpful information for me so thank-you very much and you have now demonstrated with the point of single entry and exit on the fill the fact that Safefill containers may only be allowed to be refilled in certain places.
Thanks everyone for their input
Robert

Robert, this is why I made the modification that I did to my SafeFill installation which now allows me to safely refill wherever I travel.

It isabsolutely bonkers that the bod who imports these cylinders into the UK from Norway hasn't asked them to supply his with cylinders with 2 entry points. If I was doing my build again I would still go for a cylinder in the van, but this time I would go for an Alugaz cylinder which has the same advantage of it being very lightweight.

Phil

 

[RAW]

this time I would go for an Alugaz cylinder which has the same advantage of it being very lightweight.

Phil

Holy Smokes Phil,
Nearly £600 !! https://www.ebay.co.uk/i/323408522538
OR perhaps this would be good as an alternative, do you happen to know anything about GasIt systems, please ?
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Gas-It-6...syfit-Internal-Fill-Point-System/264050325166

Thanks again
Robert

 

[Bouydog]

It may be of interest to those with refillable lpg systems to know that Shell filling stations in the UK are moving out of auto gas supply, the removal of pumps and tanks is underway.